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New Area? Thacher State Park (Greater Albany)
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By gmiani
From Rockland Cty, NY
Apr 11, 2012

Ladies and Gents

A local activist is trying to drum up support for a potential new climbing area. A 2-3 mile limestone exposure runs through portions of Thacher State Park, approximately 15 mi west of Albany.

nysparks.com/parks/128/details.aspx

While I have not been up there personally yet, the rock is reported to be of variable quality with sections of very good climbable rock. Historically, the park has not allowed climbing (or even maintained trails below the cliffs). The local activist has already met with the regional parks' office staff as well as the head ranger about the future of climbing here. Their response was positive.

In this time of economic uncertainty, the NYS park system has been under strain and is looking to understand all the potential the parks can offer...including the possibility of climbing. Currently there is a day use fee for any users to access Thacher...with an influx of climbers...they stand to have a new revenue stream.

A fledgling Thacher Climbing Coalition has been formed to raise awareness and can be found on facebook here:
Thacher Climbing Coalition Group

Please join in on the conversation to help our understanding of the area and what it could be. The regional NYS parks' office is holding a public meeting Apr. 28, 2012 at the adjacent Thompson Lake State Park.
Public Meeting Announcement

We need to make our voice heard now to help ensure climbing access for what could be the next great thing in NY.
-gabe


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By Kevin Heckeler
From Upstate New York
Apr 11, 2012
Rumney

While that would be cool to have around (maybe 40 minute drive for me), I'm fairly familiar with the Park and its cliffs and I don't recall any rock there of 'climbable' quality. But since I started climbing I haven't been back there, so my memory may be playing tricks.


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By giants98954
Apr 11, 2012

Not a local, but I thought I'd add some pictures for context. I can't speak to the rock quality.

Formations










Close ups of the rock





Looks like it'd need bolts to be worthwhile, but some cool overhanging formations for sure.


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By Kevin Heckeler
From Upstate New York
Apr 12, 2012
Rumney

Yeah, was thinking the same thing from memory about bolting, which I'm 99% sure the powers that be won't approve of. Period.

I thought it was all shale. At least, I think there's a lot of shale mixed in. The whole hudson/mohawk river valley with the exception of a few spots (Gunks, Fort Drum, Moss Island, etc) suffer from poor rock quality. The Catskills have zilch due to almost entirely poor rock quality (obviously fine for ice though).

I give rock climbing at Thatcher a snow ball's chance. Good luck fighting the fight.


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By handon broward
From Rochester, NY / Aspen, CO
Apr 12, 2012
Elk Range, CO

That huge shelf tabletop formation looks awesome. All of the potential areas look like strictly overhanging climbing:) Im hesitant to be optimistic of development bc of known rock quality and grumps who dont like climbing in NY. However, I will continue to be hopeful. This would be HUGE for those from my crappy locale of Western NY...aka the land of no formations


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By gmiani
From Rockland Cty, NY
Apr 12, 2012

Giants...thanks for the photos. To all looking at them, a lot of these come from the one trail that dips below the cliffs called the Indian Ladder Trail. This of course is one of the worst sections of rock from what I've been told (but I guess makes for a good indian shelter).

Here's a marked up pic that the activist Mike put together...he's done some homework and thinks the rock could be worthwhile. Again, I haven't checked it out myself, but Mike's been around and climbed on a decent amount of lime before.

Rock Layers
Rock Layers


Bolts would be necessary as the limestone does not present consistent weaknesses that would take pro. Kevin...this is not a nonstarter. Bolts are allowed in many places (including the Gunks when deemed necessary as anchors). You know bolts are safe (when installed, used, and maintained properly). If the right people present it the right way and we back it up with a management program and strong community that will maintain them, there is a real possibility of it happening.

Thanks for your support. Tell your buddies, climbing partners, and gym acquaintances. Join the facebook group so we can quickly disseminate information.
-gabe


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By Ben Brotelho
From Albany, NY
Apr 12, 2012
Epic free solo with a pack on

...I have a near-horror-story about this place that can attest to the questionable rock quality at least near the trail. I pulled on a block like an idiot, and it fell. It was big, so I didn't think it would, but it made a pretty loud BANG when it hit, and I saw a kid scurry away from the general area. good thing he didn't get hit, because it probably would have killed him.

who knows though, maybe the quality is better in other areas of the park?


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By Kevin Heckeler
From Upstate New York
Apr 12, 2012
Rumney

In defense of random loose blocks - when establishing climbs one of the first things done at any wall (regardless of rock quality) is the 'removal' (ie - crow barring) of loose blocks. Usually someone stands away from the cliff on either side to ensure no one else can walk under the wall while this is being done. So loose rock on the climbs is probably the least of my concerns in the long run, knowing those will be removed prior to the first bolts even being placed.

The greater threat is from above, whether it be idiots throwing stuff over the cliff's edge or loose rocks/blocks from the top coming down. As shown in that diagram, there's significant crappy rock above much of the cliff.

My main fear is we get a lot of interest now, but not a lot to maintain after. Hypothetically, a few decent routes are put in, but we find that there aren't many more good lines to be had. Or only hard 5.11+ routes are found. People lose interest. Bolts don't get replaced/maintained. It's tough because I'd love to have a quality sport climbing area near home, but I'd just as much love to retain a positive reputation with the governing agencies. All it takes is one failure to poison already poor attitudes toward climbing in a region. Kinda damned if you do/don't situation. With the amount of climbers in the area an argument can be made for developing a good crag near Albany. But with the amount of quality climbing relatively close to the south (Gunks) and north (Crane/Lake George), it's as easy to say this might be effort better spent elsewhere.

I'm truly torn by this news.

As for bolting - the Gunks are private and bolting is allowed through the relationship Mohonk has with the climbing community (Gunks Climber's Coalition). Elsewhere in the State, on State lands like Thatcher, bolting is technically illegal. Bolts are non-conforming. The State is flexible in (not) enforcing this. I believe some of the UMPs in the Chapel Pond area now make mention of climbing activities and allow for some trail maintenance and anchor building. I believe that's case-by-case, and discretionary (local Rangers would/should be kept in the loop).

This is actually rather complicated and I'm actually getting a headache over it! lol


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By JSH
Administrator
Apr 12, 2012
JSH @ home <br /> <br />photo courtesy of Gabe Ostriker

Bolts aren't just "allowed" at the Gunks -- it's more complicated than that, and you should work to understand it a bit before you cite it.

The Preserve's policy has been for like-kind replacement of fixed hardware, generally by locals. The official words, however, are:

In order to retain the natural state of the cliffs as far as possible, the Preserve forbids all environmentally damaging climbing practices. These include, but are not limited to, trundling rocks, chipping holds, cutting trees, and placement of any bolt or piton. The Mohonk Preserve explicitly disclaims all responsibility for the safety of any bolts and pitons that may be found in place anywhere on the cliffs of the Mohonk Preserve.

The Preserve itself has installed some fixed rap anchors; but that is their wont, as the landowner. It doesn't apply to Any Old Klimber.


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By gmiani
From Rockland Cty, NY
Apr 12, 2012

Nothing like bolt talk to get people's hearts pumping. I'm aware of the Gunks bolting policy...and I did say "when deemed necessary" in an attempt to paraphase Mohonk's (rightfully) strict policies. The Gunks of course being a poor example anyways as it is private property (and a trad haven)...guess I forgot the potential for everyone to pick something completely apart.

My point was...travel around the country. Around the world. And there is bolted climbing everywhere. And it seems to work, for the most part, in harmony with the land managers, climbers, and environmentalists. Again...for the most part (for the nitpickers out there). I understand that NY has a particularly stiff bent on the subject...but it shouldn't just simply be shrug our shoulders and give up.

Personally, I grew up as a climber at the Gunks and have a strong traditional ethic. But limestone usually doesn't lend itself too much to trad pro. Obviously some sort of methodology would have to be put into place to regulate, monitor, and hold accountable the bolt placement process (under the assumption that any of this even gets that far!). While I share Kevin's hesitancy with regards to maintenance, one can only hope that a strong community with proper management can evolve from the get go (and stick around), instead of making up for poor decisions or lack of management in hindsight. Whats to say that this can't become a New River, or Red River, or Obed, etc. Unless we make an attempt...it'll just be another closed cliff in our already limited resource East Coast climbing world.
-g


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By Kevin Heckeler
From Upstate New York
Apr 12, 2012
Rumney

"g" - make sure you are prepared to be concise and specific in your comparisons with other areas, and know the exact regulations for said areas, BEFORE citing them. Not knowing them and having someone in a position of authority point them out (especially at a public meeting in a few weeks hint hint) will make the organization look bad and ill-prepared to tackle the issue. Your defensive tone isn't necessary either, we (climbers) are all on the same page here. Misinformation should and will be corrected. Julie's not out of line to point such incorrect (or poorly paraphrased) statements out, and it's not being "nitpicky". Terms and regulations are how "the other side" live and function. They hardly feel it's trivial and/or nitpicky.

Instead of seeing the questions here as combative, perhaps they could serve as a good warmup for the kind of pushback you are liekly to receive at some point in the process of opening this area to climbing. (?) This type of bolting conversation is going to play itself out numerous times in the coming months, and often with people with an opinion that you will not likely change. Get used to it. [I say this because your terse reaction here indicates you aren't yet used to it]

If you are not prepared with a boatload of knowledge prior to coming into a word fight on the subject, perhaps you will want to appoint someone with that knowledge to speak on behalf. Just sayin'. ;)

Is the access fund sending a rep or having an experienced rep from another area coming to that meeting? Their wealth of knowledge and experience would be invaluable.


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By MikeWh
Apr 12, 2012
ProfilePic

Main Points:

1. -ICE CLIMBING: Despite there being at least 3 good waterfalls ice climbing is illegal and this needs to be changed.

2. -LIMESTONE of all qualities is climbed on in Europe and out west. If you live in the NE and you doubt it try getting something called the internet for prior research.

3. -No one is saying this will replace or compete with the Gunks. The quartz at the Gunks will always be the best, many people in the area are spoiled by this. Just as in NC ice climbers learn to deal with thin ice, and east coast skiers learn to handle ice, people in limestone areas learn to deal with less than ideal rock, we make the most of what we can, East coast skiers and climbers statistically excel compared to western raised counterparts due to a background adverse conditions. If Messner bitched about the Italian Dolomite's limestone do you think he would be where he is today?

4. -Mr. Heckeler thanks for clarifying what many climbers I guess dont know... that is that routes are CLEANED prior to use and sometimes yearly. This is how it is done in other limestone areas.

5. -"Efforts better spend elsewhere" - I beg to differ with 200,000 people living within a 40 minute drive... Also being at the crossroads of the two most important Interstates in the NE. Thacher could be the "Table Mt." of Albany. Albany like Denver could have climbing only 20 minutes drive from downtown (thats with traffic). If this cliff were located in a remote area it would not be worth the effort, however due to proximity to urban centers of 5 cities this is worth the fight and will benefit many. The Gunks will always be the best weekend destination, but this is an after-work destination. We dont have that in Albany, you dont have that in most east coast cities. Only Thacher and the Palasades near Manhattan can offer this kind of rapid accessibility.

6. - Don't give up hope on working in NY State and its regulations. Non-conforming structure deals mainly with DEC lands. This is not DEC land. The ugly fences at the top of the cliff are about as non conforming as it gets... somebody get me a chainsaw and we can fix that.

7. - BOLT MAINTENANCE - The local climbing community has grown immensely in the last 14 years. There are 3 local gyms in the Capital Region. Don't underestimate the number of good climbers living in Albany area, they all have to log in the 4 hours r/t drive to the Gunks but they are committed. They would certainly enjoy a local spot to gather with minimal driving time commitment. I think there will be ample support locally for a governing non-profit which issues bolt permits.


Shelf Road, Canon City, CO - Limestone, looks weak... but is not...try it.
Shelf Road, Canon City, CO - Limestone, looks weak... but is not...try it.


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By MikeWh
Apr 12, 2012
ProfilePic

Potential ice climbs on the Indian Ladder Trail
Potential ice climbs on the Indian Ladder Trail


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By Kevin Heckeler
From Upstate New York
Apr 12, 2012
Rumney

It's about 3 hours round trip to the Gunks from Albany. But I got the point - having a local weekday crag is not a bad thing. No need to exagerrate numbers. It's also worth noting that this isn't exactly a backyard drive for most capital district residents. Aside from the 100,000 in the immediate city of Albany and the few 10,000-ish in the suburbs on the southern and southwestern side of the city, the remainder of residents from Schenetady and Troy have a 40-60 minute drive, possibly more for Saratoga. Just saying that this isn't exactly a hop/skip/jump off the highway unless you happen to be right in Albany or one of the neighboring communities. From Albany it's 1:10 to the eastern shore of Lake George (Buck, Shelving Rock, Stewart's Ledge), 1:20 to the Gunks, and 1:15 to Crane. For people north/south of Albany these numbers improve depending on where they are in proximity to these locations. For someone in Saratoga they're actually better off going to Lake George or Crane. Someone in Coxsackie, Hudson, or Catskill would be better off going to the Gunks, if travel time were a primary influence/factor. Neither would be within the hour's "after work" windows for easy access (?). Also, anyone whose traveled any of the routes heading toward Thatcher after work knows that they tend to be their busiest at that time of day and going can be somewhat slower than usual. Add more time for 'after work' fun, regardless of where you're coming from.

So while for SOME this would be an afterwork spot (30 minute drive), for 50% or more of the area it won't be significantly closer than other existing areas. If we're going to use location as an affirmative, it needs to be a pro for a majority and that's a tougher case to make than I think perhaps is being casually accepted.

Plus, you can easily make the argument that sport can be accomplished just as well in a gym as it can be on a bolted wall outdoors. [I like climbing outside, but some people like air conditioning and a bug free space to 'work out']

Also excited by the ice climbing opportunities, though they appear to be more limited than the rock possibilities.

IMO the biggest points/issues will be:

- Will the State (DEC, whomever) allow bolting, and to what extend, and through how many hoops will adding/changing bolts require one to jump through? Obviously the ideal would be to have a couple months of organized route building, bolting, and strategic anchor construction. Then have provisions to alow existing bolts and rap anchors be replaced/repaired as needed without prior authorization. This would apply to new routes/bolts as they're approved ("grandfathered" in).

- Will they allow for some maintenance of the cliff's top to remove potentially loose and dangerous rock? Time constantly sends those down the wall, but as of now no one is there (or rarely there) when these events occur. Once this opens and people climb there regularly (likely daily if it's a success) there will be a safety need for complete stewardship, not just the climbable sections.

- Will they have sufficient parking available? The number of potential climbers of 200,000 residents (I think the capital district area has over 500,000 depending on which counties you're including) would be roughly 2,000 (1 percent of the whole identify themselves as climbers?). Of those 2,000 you have to imagine hundreds will visit regularly. This could cause congestion in the existing lots.

- Will there be fees and how much per car/climber per day? I hate fees but if it keeps the Park open/funded (and those fees are kept in house for improvement of the Park) that would be ideal.


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By Kevin Heckeler
From Upstate New York
Apr 12, 2012
Rumney

I'm all for new development (especially when it might benefit me), but only when it seems reasonable and sustainable. My posts are intended to be of that line of questioning.


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By gmiani
From Rockland Cty, NY
Apr 12, 2012

Kev...I didn't come for a fight at all (word fight or any other). All I wanted to do was to try to bring some awareness to the potential of this cliff. Potential. What I was hoping to achieve was a response that was positive albeit necessarily cautious. If I came off terse or defensive, it certainly wasn't my intent. Its always difficult over text alone to get a sense of inflection or context. If I can be accused of anything, its that I'm no Hemingway.

We have a long way to go and you’re right, it could turn out that there is nothing worthwhile. Until then, I can only ask for your positive support. There’s a difference between an educated disagreement with someone else’s position and simply being a naysayer. But I’ll try not to make assumptions as those made about my knowledge or experience. I digress.

I fully understand that these situations require a lot of homework…and we have already started gathering information to be as prepared as possible when it comes to presenting the climbers’ case. Mike has been in contact with the Mohonk Preserve and they have already provided economic and safety reports. I have been working with the Access Fund and folks from the GCC that worked on opening Peterskill 15 years ago and continue to work on access to other parts of Minnewaska. This is on top of work that I've involved in with an area that is part of Harriman State Park (and managed by PIPC as is Minnewaska).

The conversation here is certainly only a warmup and an effort to help involve even more people. This way the outcome is not one person’s idea of what an area should be…but the community’s. Mike has already met with the NYS Regional Park staff…as well as the head ranger…and their response was positive. This initial public meeting at the end of the month is the first of a few that have been planned. We’re simply trying to see if an interested climbers community exists and if the park is willing to listen. Given the economic situation the NYS Park system is in, we’re hopeful that they will be. There is no better time than now to help them realize the potential that climbing can bring to them.

This is the entry way into studies that can provide the information to all the questions that will be asked with Thacher in particular. I mean at this point, we can’t even agree if the rock is of climbable quality. Until these basic questions are answered, all we can do is prepare ourselves with general or comparative information regarding climbing safety, litigation, land use law, trail creation and maintenance, economic impacts, environmental impacts, etc.
-gabe


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By MikeWh
Apr 12, 2012
ProfilePic

Thanks for bringing up some healthy discussion on the issue. Whether 40 routes are established with one bouldering area, or 400 routes with multiple bouldering areas it will be an improvement. We have a plan for management with permit system which will greatly benefit the park in these hard financial times. It can be a win-win for all.

L. George climbing areas are 63+ miles from Albany with the horrendous Northway traffic at 3-7pm. I have a house in Ballston Spa and it is still 40 minutes drive to a trailhead. Exit 11 is the halfway point, where it would be easier to drive south or north.

The possibilities of many 5.11 routes is true, however there are many great 5.6-5.8 fist/finger cracks on solid rock in the nooks between bulges. I have done some of these before and topped out back in the 90s. In the worst case you may have 60 feet separating moderate routes with super hard routes on the smooth bulges in between.

Limestone is really a joy to climb on and has lots of cool features that ADK granite is short on. The huge chimneys and frequent horizontal cracks make for some really great moderate climbing.

Nice texture on the Coeymans limestone
Nice texture on the Coeymans limestone


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By Kevin Heckeler
From Upstate New York
Apr 13, 2012
Rumney

Thanks for the responses. Now I think we've all got a greater picture of what's been done and where this is going. Thanks for the clarification!

Certainly not naysaying, if I'm thnking these things aloud there are many who are thinking the same things and just haven't posted them. Hope I've been able to help expand the conversation to more than a mere pep rally (figure that's what the FB page is for).


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By handon broward
From Rochester, NY / Aspen, CO
Apr 13, 2012
Elk Range, CO

The development of this area would provide a great chance for NY climbers to set a precedent of example crag behavior. The ramapo/powerlinez fiasco really shed a bad light on NY climbers and some of their selfish behavior. A new area a little further from NYC might be a good chance for a fresh start and a chance to show that we know what responsible development is.


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By JCM
From Golden, CO
Apr 13, 2012

I'm really surprised by the negative responses to the idea of potentially opening a new crag close to a city that currently lacks close-proximity climbing. If this pans out, it could be a great resource for Albany and the Northeast in general. Steep limestone climbing is almost absent in the east (Franklin, WV comes to mind as an exception), and this could add a new and different flavor to local climbing.

Two foreseeable problems: rock quality and rules. The first question is whether the rock is of good enough quality to allow for decent climbing. It may look a little dodgy in its appearance, but a lot of great climbing has been squeezed out of cliffs of marginal quality rock, especially in the West. Look at Maple Canyon, and Rifle. Both are scrappy-looking chossheaps, and both have been groomed into destination-quality areas. So, just because the rock at Thatcher isn't the bullet quartzite of the Gunks, don't write it off yet. That said, if the rock turns out to be of Catskill-quality, then climbing there is probably not a worthy consideration.

The second question is whether the state park would allow for the sort of development approach that would be necessary to allow for the creation of good climbing on mediocre rock. Choss can be groomed into good climbing, especially when it is steep, but it takes a heavier hand to do it. On clean, good quality rock with cracks, and LNT development style is practical; walk up, climb the route, walk off, and leave. A lot more has to be done on chossy limestone, likely including bolts, cleaning, and maybe even (gasp!) a bit of glue. Getting the State to allow this sort of development will take some extra work.

This could be a great find. Steep limestone climbing is great fun, and it makes you strong. Guarded optimism may be the best attitude here.


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By Kevin Heckeler
From Upstate New York
Apr 13, 2012
Rumney

Jon Moen wrote:
I'm really surprised by the negative responses to the idea of potentially opening a new crag close to a city that currently lacks close-proximity climbing. If this pans out, it could be a great resource for Albany and the Northeast in general. Steep limestone climbing is almost absent in the east (Franklin, WV comes to mind as an exception), and this could add a new and different flavor to local climbing.


For the record, most 'negative' posts here are my observations and inquiries that are intended to generate discussion. Tough questions need and should be asked now, not 3 years from now.


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By Kevin Heckeler
From Upstate New York
Apr 13, 2012
Rumney

Jon Moen wrote:
Two foreseeable problems: rock quality and rules. The first question is whether the rock is of good enough quality to allow for decent climbing. It may look a little dodgy in its appearance, but a lot of great climbing has been squeezed out of cliffs of marginal quality rock, especially in the West. Look at Maple Canyon, and Rifle. Both are scrappy-looking chossheaps, and both have been groomed into destination-quality areas. So, just because the rock at Thatcher isn't the bullet quartzite of the Gunks, don't write it off yet. That said, if the rock turns out to be of Catskill-quality, then climbing there is probably not a worthy consideration. The second question is whether the state park would allow for the sort of development approach that would be necessary to allow for the creation of good climbing on mediocre rock. Choss can be groomed into good climbing, especially when it is steep, but it takes a heavier hand to do it. On clean, good quality rock with cracks, and LNT development style is practical; walk up, climb the route, walk off, and leave. A lot more has to be done on chossy limestone, likely including bolts, cleaning, and maybe even (gasp!) a bit of glue. Getting the State to allow this sort of development will take some extra work.


Plus, my 'negative' posts address all or parts of your foreseeable problems mentioned. Just don't want to be made out to be the bad guy here, I'm simply using a discussion forum to discuss the subject!


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By JSH
Administrator
Apr 13, 2012
JSH @ home <br /> <br />photo courtesy of Gabe Ostriker

gmiani wrote:
Bolts are allowed in many places (including the Gunks when deemed necessary as anchors). You know bolts are safe (when installed, used, and maintained properly). If the right people present it the right way and we back it up with a management program and strong community that will maintain them, there is a real possibility of it happening.


Don't get me wrong -- I know that limestone means bolts, and your overall ideas here are good. My reaction isn't a negative one; it's meant to help you with presenting your ideas the very best "right way" possible.

If you say bolts are allowed in the Gunks when deemed necessary, that leaves wide open the issue/question of a) bolts as installed by whom? and b) deemed necessary by whom? It's a vague statement that implies you haven't done your homework but that you want to elide over the details and use it in your favor anyway. That doesn't come across well to people who don't like your plan. And this is the place where you want to work that out.

Once described correctly, the Preserve's policy around bolts can still be well cited. It means that the Preserve, as the landowning organization, has fundamentally recognized the value of properly installed and maintained steel, over other options, for one. It means that the Preserve itself has undertaken a management plan to protect its resources (ie the soil around trees where old slings used to be), and seen fit to use steel, judiciously, to do so.

The more details you include in your argument, the better it is, and those who listen to you will be more convinced that you've given them a thorough, serious plan well beyond "other places use bolts, so it's ok". See what I mean?

Best of luck. Looks like a lot of decent rock!


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By gmiani
From Rockland Cty, NY
Apr 13, 2012

Overall...my initial post was intended to be short and sweet to probe the board for any interest and knowledge with respect to the area. Attention spans can be short. In retrospect, I probably could have used a little more information up front regarding the work that has already been put into play here. I hope that some of that has come to light in the conversation above. I can only speak for myself, but my intentions are fully transparent. I remain open to whatever questions anyone has and I will continue to present my ideas and actions in earnest.

JSH...Didn't take your comments as negative at all...maybe a bit presumptuous but I certainly didn't present my case in its entirety for you to know my intentions.

What was meant to merely try to counter the point that the possibility of bolts will stop us in our tracks, turned out to be a frail reference. But it was just a reference...since this discussion is not about the Gunks. Didn't really foresee bands of hilti-wielding maniacs declaring open season at the Gunks due to my suggestion. And while it may have been shortsided on my part to use the word "allowed" so liberally, I did attempt to put the caveat with respect to the Gunks as I am quite familiar with their policy and process. In the future I will be more conspicuous with my language. I certainly understand and appreciate the need for having the policy spelled out.

Finally...does anyone in the greater Albany area have any experience with tax maps? I'm trying to get information regarding ownership of the any properties in the area that could affect climber access. But I'm not local and it'll be much harder for me to deal with. Let me know.
-gabe


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By Kevin Heckeler
From Upstate New York
Apr 13, 2012
Rumney

The Town Clerk's office usually keeps the tax maps. Someone would need to physicially go there to look at them and make copies. I'd assume it's mostly Berne and Voorheesville bumping up against Thatcher. Not sure if they all fall under the "New Scotland" township, which is rather large.


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By NYClimber
From New York
Apr 15, 2012
Awesome slab climb right out of the water! Rogers Rock, Lake George, NY. Summer 2013.

I live about 15 mins from Thatcher's Park and have walked the Indian Ladder trail many times. The future of the park has been uncertain due to the State of NY's severe budget cuts, etc. I am support of this happening in lieu of the limestone rock anyway. Look a the Eiger - limestone as well but that hasn't stopped many from climbing it still. One just needs to be aware of the risks and dangers of this type of rock and plan accordingly. I imagine bolts would prob be necessary if not top roped - I am not sure of the cliffs offer up much in the line of crack systems that would lend themselves to pro - but then - I have never really looked over the areas for such being that climbing has been prohibited anyway.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out with NYS. It would be a nice local alternative to those of use that reside near the Albany area - and of course it wouldn't replace places like the Gunks of ADK's as well...


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