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Red Rock fees going up!
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Aug 20, 2009
South of Windy Peak
They call it a "Draft Business Plan", but it looks like the BLM wants to raise the rates for using Red Rock. Here are a few increases to try on for size:

Scenic Drive - day pass - car: from $5 to $7
Scenic Drive - day pass, bicycle or ped: from $0 to $3
Annual pass - from $20 to $30
Campground - individual site: from $10 to $15

I think these prices are getting way out of hand. The BLM says that they welcome comments in writing, but I don't really think that my complaints will do any good. I use my $80 America the Beautiful Pass so the Red Rock rate increase wouldn't affect me but I personally think that these increases are getting expensive.
John Hegyes
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Feb 2, 2002
4,295 points
Aug 20, 2009
Gallatin Canyon
It's been my experience that land managers of all stripes get their fee increases regardless of public comment. Yet, it's part of the 'game' that we throw in our 2 cents. If enough pennies land resoundingly, it can/might have an impact. By saying nothing, you can bet on the outcome.
So start pitching pennies. I will.
Thanks for the heads up. This is the kind of action that often flies below the radar.
Andrew Carson
From Wilson, WY
Joined Jun 19, 2006
1,625 points
Aug 20, 2009
Part of an anchor on Pingora.
Well they gotta pay for that huge new uneeded visitors center somehow!
Look at it this way maybe they will have and Imax theater featureing virtual drives around the loop road. Think of the traffic that would eliminate. How about some composting toilets on popular trails or improvements to the campground! I wonder if my year pass will still be valid by the time I get back down there!
Reed Fee
From White Salmon WA
Joined Oct 14, 2008
175 points
Administrator
Aug 20, 2009
FA of The Great Potato (a.k.a. Mt. Ore Ida), Withi...
I wanted to comment to the BLM (even though I live in NM) so I found some more info:
Las Vegas Sun story.

BLM Red Rock Canyon National Conservation Area Business Plan

Comment details:
"Public meetings to accept comments will be scheduled, BLM spokeswoman Kirsten Cannon said, and comments also are being collected by e-mail (redrockbp@blm.gov), fax (702-515-5023) or mail (BLM Southern Nevada District Office, Attn: Mark Tanaka-Sanders, 4701 N. Torrey Pines, Las Vegas, NV 89130). Comments may also be delivered to the Red Rock Visitor Center or the Red Rock Campground. The deadline for comments is Nov. 16, 2009."
Jason Halladay
From Los Alamos, NM
Joined Oct 19, 2005
9,561 points
Aug 20, 2009
South of Windy Peak
Maybe with all that extra money, they could build a larger habitat for Mojave Max. And give him a treadmill or something so he doesn't get so depressed about being cooped up all the time. John Hegyes
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Feb 2, 2002
4,295 points
Aug 20, 2009
Gallatin Canyon
They could build him an IMAX theatre, maybe showing a movie about the Mojave desert! Hard to say if he'd like it, but it's worth a try. Andrew Carson
From Wilson, WY
Joined Jun 19, 2006
1,625 points
Aug 20, 2009
in repose
or maybe a film with girl tortoises, since he isn't allowed to socialize with them in his habitat ( they keep the boys and girls separate, so as not to increase the numbers of captives unneccesarily.) Bummer! no conjugal visits. But hot giant screen tortoise babes, there could be something to that........... cassondra
Joined Nov 26, 2008
388 points
Aug 20, 2009
Way to increase the car fee by $2, that's a buck a climber max, and make it $3 for anyone who's not burning his way around the loop. I mean, shouldn't clean transportation carry the brunt of that price bump? Put those dirty bike-riding feet-using hippies back in a good ol' american-made SUV?
You keep protecting the land for all of us BLM...
Boissal
From Small Lake, UT
Joined Aug 21, 2006
1,729 points
Aug 20, 2009
South of Windy Peak
Mojave Max
Mojave Max


MOJAVE MAX SAYS "NO TO THE FEE INCREASE!"
John Hegyes
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Feb 2, 2002
4,295 points
Aug 21, 2009
South of Windy Peak
vegastradguy wrote:
considering this is the first fee increase on the loop road since they started charging, i don't really have a problem with it. Every other park i visit has seen increases in the more than 10 years that RR hasnt. the bigger problem, imho, is the new $40 picnicing fee at Red Springs, which was previously free. that is ridiculous (and, suspicious, if you ask me, given how anti-public use the calico residents seem to be of the basin). i think that the camping increase is warranted as well, due to the massive improvements slated for the campground (shade structures, power, etc) in coming years- that needs to get paid for and maintained. also, these fees have nothing to do with the visitors center- that was funded years ago via federal funds, not admission fees.


Okay, Mr. Guy, that was a well-reasoned, civil response, thank you. However, I must refer to the flyer they've been handing out at the toll booths.

"Projects that would be accomplished with the additional funding include: ...new and original visitor centers and Mojave Discovery Center...law enforcement patrols...complete a comprehensive trail plan..."

Somehow, I think that the improvements that would be truly beneficial to climbers will be much lower down the list. And what have they really done in the past 10 years? The trail system is a mess - the paths are mostly braided networks of social trails.

If I thought I was going to get well maintained trails, composting toilets, and campground improvements, I'd be all for it. In reality, I think we're going to get more office buildings for bureaucrats, officers enforcing the 25 mile an hour speed limit on the loop, more dead tortoises and fewer burros and horses.

I'd like to see an accounting of how many employees they plan to hire with the new money and what their job descriptions might be.
John Hegyes
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Feb 2, 2002
4,295 points
Aug 21, 2009
QITNL
In general, not to be rude, what I've learned over the years, is:

IMPROVEMENTS SUCK !!!
QITNL
Joined Jul 30, 2009
10 points
Aug 21, 2009
Red Rocks is a friggin awesome place to climb. If we didn't have the government protecting that land, the developers get in. I would happily pay twice the proposed fee.

Climb Ohn.

Wally
Wally
From Denver
Joined Apr 12, 2006
31 points
Aug 22, 2009
On the Leaning Tower, Yosemite.
Speaking of new BLM job positions and descriptions..... I heard that the "vegastradguy" just got hired. chad umbel
Joined Jan 13, 2005
537 points
Aug 22, 2009
Gallatin Canyon
Maybe you NV residents need to speak with the Senate Majority Leader... he certainly ignores voices from Wyoming, like mine. $$$$ talks, or walks, or swears, or something, but it sure doesn't get spent on projects that benefit our kind of land use.
Shake that moneytree!
Andrew Carson
From Wilson, WY
Joined Jun 19, 2006
1,625 points
Aug 22, 2009
South of Windy Peak
Yeah, I didn't think that was called for. It doesn't serve anyone when productive conversation leads to name-calling. And calling someone a government employee is pretty bad. John Hegyes
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Feb 2, 2002
4,295 points
Aug 22, 2009
Bucky
I'm sure you were joking John, but seriously, government employee does not equal crappy/incompetent/useless. In fact, I would argue that a lot of government employees do a better job than there private sector counterparts, and at a fraction of the cost. Nonetheless, its nice to see you stick up for vegastradguy despite disagreeing with him.

Personally, I don't ever pay the fee because I buy a NP pass every year and that covers the fees for the week that I spend every year in RR. I gladly give this to the park service because their budget is continually being cut and I greatly value what they add to our country. Now, I will admit that I get more direct use out of my park pass than maybe vegas folks do because I live near the Valley and the Meadows, but I also try and think of the indirect benefit of my pass. The indirect benefit being (maybe overly optimistic, but still) that if the general public uses the NP system, then they hopefully will be more appreciative of our wild places and perhaps at least some of them will be moved to support not only the NP system, but the preservation of other, more pristine areas (e.g. our wilderness areas etc.).

Just my 2 cents.
J. Albers
From Colorado
Joined Jul 11, 2008
2,226 points
Aug 22, 2009
Hidden valley jtree chillin
If they raise the enterance fees. I think its time to finally live my dream of hiking to the summit of charlston, and paragliding into the meadow in pine creek. rex parker
From las vegas n.v
Joined Aug 6, 2006
247 points
Aug 22, 2009
Hidden valley jtree chillin
vegastrad guy...goverment job?? i heard he just started working swing shift at cheetahs.. rex parker
From las vegas n.v
Joined Aug 6, 2006
247 points
Aug 22, 2009
Growing a winter coat in Red Rock Canyon- December...
VTG has bigger plans than all of the above; Good luck with your new business venture! BTW, it was nice bumping into you a few days ago in RR. Dirty Gri Gri, or is it GiGi?
From Vegas
Joined May 25, 2005
4,468 points
Aug 23, 2009
Enjoying beautiful Red Rocks.
vegastradguy wrote:
the bigger problem, imho, is the new $40 picnicing fee at Red Springs, which was previously free. that is ridiculous (and, suspicious, if you ask me, given how anti-public use the calico residents seem to be of the basin).


???
I'm currently injured and out of the loop and this is the first I've heard of this. Are you saying there's a fee to use those picnic tables now? That would be absurd.
Aaron S
Joined Dec 10, 2006
190 points
Aug 23, 2009
South of Windy Peak
Aaron S wrote:
??? I'm currently injured and out of the loop and this is the first I've heard of this. Are you saying there's a fee to use those picnic tables now? That would be absurd.


I believe the $40 fee would apply to a group picnic reservation. This would be an increase from the current fee of $0.
John Hegyes
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Feb 2, 2002
4,295 points
Aug 24, 2009
another moderate trad route
I think it's a great idea to charge people to use the picnic facilities. Many of those users leave trash everywhere, play their music at absurd levels and generally make a nuisance of themselves. Charge them fifty and make them have advance reservations.
What is ridiculous is charging hikers and bikers who create zero impact for the privilege of using a poorly maintained road and even worse trail system. The fees they collect now don't stay here and the chances that these increased ones will is infinitesimal.
Killis, that was one of your weaker posts. While I generally dispise trustafarians as worthless and a drain on the system for outdoor recreation professional careers, it's not their fault they were born with a silver spoon stuck in their pie holes. Some of them are almost contributing members of society. Singling them out is too easy. It's like saying the BLM stands for Bureau of Land Mismanagement. It's a given.
TedV
From Lost Wages
Joined Oct 31, 2008
24 points
Aug 24, 2009
South of Windy Peak
TedV wrote:
It's like saying the BLM stands for Bureau of Land Mismanagement. It's a given.
I thought it was Bureau of Lumber and Mining?
John Hegyes
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Feb 2, 2002
4,295 points
Aug 25, 2009
John Hegyes wrote:
I thought it was Bureau of Lumber and Mining?


Bureau of Livestock and Mining.
Chris Burton
Joined Jan 14, 2006
116 points
Aug 25, 2009
South of Windy Peak
Chris Burton wrote:
Bureau of Livestock and Mining.

Touché.

Or how about Burros, Livestock and Mining?
John Hegyes
From Las Vegas, NV
Joined Feb 2, 2002
4,295 points
Sep 3, 2009
another moderate trad route
Normally I enjoy reading your posts Killis, these fall far short of the poignant material you've been posting previously.
They we're probably deleted because they are personal attacks and don't address any RR climbing related issues.
Get back to the stuff that matters.
TedV
From Lost Wages
Joined Oct 31, 2008
24 points


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