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Problems with camp hosts at 13 mile....
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By Tradoholic
Jan 16, 2007

So this is the third January I've been visiting the awesome climbing in Red Rocks and camping at 13 mile, but every year I see the camp hosts giving generally everyone a hard time about something. It's not that they are enforcing rules it is the way the go about it immediately becoming extremely hostile. I've never personally been yelled at for anything but finally this year they started giving my good friend a hard time because he had come in at 1am and slept in his van in the general parking lot. In the morning he drove over to our site and the second he stepped out of the vehicle this woman came over and totally flipped out! Saying she wanted money for last nights camp "right now!" Well, he was with us and it is up to 10 climbers in a site, so needless to say she was completely out of line.
So, my question is two fold; who else has had this experience? Please share, and I know their superior's name is Barb but my other friend had issues with her last year, so what is her superiors name and contact info. Any help would be appreciated.


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By Peter Iacona
Jan 17, 2007

I had the same problem in November. 13 miles has a supply and demand problem with no solution what so ever for overflow.


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By Jason D. Martin
Jan 17, 2007
Jason

This is a problem that has been going on for years. I hear stories all the time about this. Making a formal complaint is well worth it. Perhaps a complaint could be signed by members who look at this website and others...

Jason


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By Lynn
Jan 17, 2007

I have experienced this exact problem along with many others at the campground. I have even called Barb, I will leave the details out. If you would like to get ahold of Barb's supervisor you can call the visitor center at Red Rocks 702 515-5350.


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By M.Morley
Administrator
From Sacramento, CA
Jan 17, 2007
8-21-09

My partner and I had the same run-in with the campground Nazis a few weeks ago - December 27th to be exact. We were rousted at 5:30 in the morning by the campground host DEMANDING PAYMENT IMMEDIATELY. I have no problem paying a fee to camp, but give me a frickin' break, lady! Isn't the term campground "host" supposed to imply some degree of friendliness? Be forewarned: these folks are downright aggressive and hostile towards climbers.


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By George Bell
From Boulder, CO
Jan 17, 2007
Hip trouble ...

Sad to hear this. I remember the first season that campground was open (5-7 years ago??), the climbing rangers set up a table in the morning with free coffee and snacks from Starbucks! It's been all downhill since then. Do climbing rangers still exist at Red Rocks?


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By M.Morley
Administrator
From Sacramento, CA
Jan 17, 2007
8-21-09

George Bell wrote:
Do climbing rangers still exist at Red Rocks?

Jed Botsford is the head climbing ranger at RR. He has been very helpful in the past and allowed me to re-print several area descriptions and topos on this site (back when it was climbingredrocks.com). His number is (702) 515-5138.


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By John J. Glime
From Salt Lake City, UT
Jan 17, 2007
...

I hate to try and be level headed about this, but...

Imagine if you worked at a campground where the predominant user group was a bunch of slackers who are good at weaseling out of most rules. You get used to people sleeping in their Jetta's and trucks without paying, slowly but continuously, this lawbreaking starts to piss you off. Eventually you turn "your campground" into a dictatorship. Can any of you empathize with these people? I can. They are just trying to do their job. Someone told them the RULES, and they are just trying to follow them.

That said, that lady is GOOD. One night I was pretty much completely hidden in my Jetta, there was no way that any ordinary person would notice that someone was sleeping in that tiny car. But I couldn't fool the campground host. She got me, she hollered, and I hollered back that I had been sleeping outside in my campsite (which my partner did have- I didn't have a tent) and mice were crawling all over me. (This was a lie, I just didn't want to sleep out on the ground.) She accepted my response and was good natured the next day. However, I dared not try to repeat my stunt. The next night I laid out on top of one of the picnic tables and appeased everyone. The moral? Inside parked car bad. On top of picnic table, while car is empty good.

What do I do now when I don't have a tent, or am being cheap? Well Friday night I expect to be sleeping in my Jetta in the parking lot of the new Red Rocks Casino, feel free to stop by...


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By Tradoholic
Jan 17, 2007

I have no problem with them enforcing rules, she just doesn't have to be so damn rude. That is not how your treat other human beings.


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By J pee
From Capitola, CA
Jan 17, 2007
JP doing battle with his first 5.11 onsight.

Yes, the hosts at the 13 Mile can be a bit rude. However, I had some nice conversations with some as well. The rules aren't real terrible when you are following them. I, like all other climbers, like to try to bend them a little. I've found that many of the geezers (hosts) can be killed with kindness and a little down home midwest conversation. They are better to have on your side as they need no excuse to get fussy. Maybe I can stay at Brent's playa pad next time!


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By Tea
Jan 18, 2007
just Jong it!

I've chatted with her...she means well, and is nice if you take the time to be nice in return.

Something tells me she started off sweet as apple pie, and after dealing with a bunch of puffy coated, dickhead climbers who think "i don't have to play by the rules...I am rad scamming climber who is oh so stealthy" ...she has probably has soured a bit on that user group.

Can't say I blame her.

Be nice, and play nice...and she is a nice lady.

be a dick...well, get the dick in return.

I agree with Angry...I'll be sleeping in my truck at the Red Rock casino.


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By George Bell
From Boulder, CO
Jan 18, 2007
Hip trouble ...

Considering the skyrocketing room rates in Vegas, it's not surprising the 13-mile campground is jam-packed. I just looked at room rates for the Red Rocks Casio and they quote over $200 a night. Standard business traveler motels like La Quinta give similar rates. That campground is dirt cheap in comparison!

Why have Vegas Hotel rates skyrocketed, especially on the west side of town? La Quinta in Summerlin quotes $181 a night next April, while for a La Quinta in Boulder over the same time period it's only $77 a night. Even casinos downtown don't have anywhere near the room deals they had 10 years ago ... Just too many people chasing too few rooms? If camping fees had increased at this rate it would now be at least $40 a night!


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By Tradoholic
Jan 18, 2007

There is no way she could be a "nice lady" with the hostilties I witnessed. Besides no matter how much someone tries to screw her over she is the camp "host" and is obligated to treat everyone as at least a human being, yelling gets everyone nowhere. AND, in my incident she was WRONG.
Thanks for the info guys I will be contacting the supervisor and I hope you will too if you ever have problems. The only solution I see is getting her fired.


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By Dirty Gri Gri, or is it GiGi?
From Vegas
Jan 18, 2007
Growing a winter coat in Red Rock Canyon- December 2013.

George Bell wrote:
Why have Vegas Hotel rates skyrocketed...


An interesting article.


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By Tony B
From Around Boulder, CO
Jan 18, 2007
Got Milk? How about forearm pump? Tony leads "Alan Nelson's Bulging Belly" (5.10, X) on the Lost and Found Flatiron. Belayer is Mark Ruocco. Photo by Bill Wright, 10/06.

Gigette Miller wrote:


Well, yeah. I read with interest:
"There are also rampant rumors that MGM Mirage is planning to close and demolish Circus Circus (3,744 rooms) to pave the way for redevelopment."

But then:
"However, spokesman Alan Feldman said there have been no plans or discussions concerning Circus Circus."

All I can think is that good, they are getting the imperial Palace, and I am neutral on the stardust thing, but what the heck? They can't get to circus circus? Maybe they are afraid of where it's inhabitants might go it they do implode the place? I dunno. I'd be happy if they just imploded the Buffet for a start. Yuck!

What self-respecting adult wants to go to CC anyway, and who honestly believes that you should be taking kids to Vegas? Taking your kid to Vegas is about as sensible as taking a prostitute to Disneyworld.


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By John J. Glime
From Salt Lake City, UT
Jan 18, 2007
...

Tony Bubb wrote:
who honestly believes that you should be taking kids to Vegas?


What do you mean? My grandparents took me to Circus Circus when I was a kid, and I turned out just... maybe you have a point, considering how I turned out.

On a serious note, I don't have a problem with parents who show their kids Vegas. If I have kids, I won't have a problem taking them to Vegas. It is one of the wonders of the world.


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By Jason Himick
From Boulder, CO
Jan 18, 2007
Future Goal

John J. Glime wrote:
... Vegas. It is one of the wonders of the world.


I would consider it more of a human stain.


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By George Bell
From Boulder, CO
Jan 18, 2007
Hip trouble ...

Jason Himick wrote:
I would consider it more of a human stain.


Or a cancerous growth, at the rate it is growing.


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By Dirty Gri Gri, or is it GiGi?
From Vegas
Jan 19, 2007
Growing a winter coat in Red Rock Canyon- December 2013.

Tony Bubb wrote:
What self-respecting adult wants to go to CC anyway, and who honestly believes that you should be taking kids to Vegas?


Unfortunately, weekend family vacations from L.A. to Vegas were common in people of poverty to the middle class when I was a kid.

Anyway, here are some of my childhood flashbacks of Circus Circus....

I remember........

  • ...feeling quite disturbed with the scary gorilla, and clown statue greeting us at the street entrance.
  • ...being overcome with the nauseating smell of Egg Beaters while standing in the buffet line, and noticing all the people around me that were exhibiting a blunted affect.
  • ...feeling sick after eating one piece of fried chicken, and a brownie which were the only two items I found to look semi-edible at the buffet. (I'm so glad I passed up the "Hawaiian Surprise" mystery dish.)
  • ...staring blankly at the splatters of non-dairy chocolate flavored ice cream, and greasy fingerprints on the scary, dated clown murals on the walls at the buffet.
  • ...being stranded for many hours in the second hand smoke filled childrens' mezzanine/ midway game area, out of quarters, lugging around an awful assortment of stuffed animals I won, meandering about, and wishing I had saved 50 cents for another helium balloon to suck on to scare my siblings with.
  • ...watching the same free circus acts I've already seen on previous trips with the over stimulating organ music agitating me.
  • ... falling while running up the "down" escalator, and splitting my lip on the jagged step.
  • ...feeling harassed by the overweight security guards when I tried to locate my folks in the gaming areas.
  • ...feeling somewhat jealous of the Asian kids whose 30 gallon heavy duty black trash bags were stuffed full of toys, and their giant stuffed lions, and bears annoyingly propped up on several tables, and chairs at McDonalds in the midway area; as everyone seemed to be waiting for their parents to rescue them at closing time (curfew)

God, how I hate scary clowns.

I repeat.......

PLEASE IMPLODE!


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By Matt McMurray
From Castle Rock, CO
Jan 19, 2007
It's the best choice...

Let's be honest... In defense of CC, there is no other place in Vegas that I have found where you can play 'Bop-The-Chickens.' Has anyone else experienced this awesomeness??? For a buck you get three rubber chickens that you try to catapult through the air into a bucket for prizes!! =) Absolutely a riot...

MM


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By phil broscovak
Jan 20, 2007
Dreamin' Dawg

Lets be real here. The problem with the 13 mile kamp kommandants is that the last time they did the 'dandy do' Nixon was in office.
Now abstinence makes for a great rallying chant for 'born again neo-con nutz but it will tend to sour a person after a few decades. So let us rally the Red Rocks Regulars and get these poor unfortunate souls a 'happy'. Now I realize that after all these miserable years they probably can't stand to even look at each other so it may be up to you 'locals' to volunteer for a coitus-operandi. You know, step up to the plate for the greater good, take one for the team. Now that I remember my last stay there You may actually have to have a lottery or a 'short stick' drawing. Come to think of it perhaps we should just pool our resources and get them a subscription to an adult video channel. Anyway you do it it's got to be done! Release is good for the soul. You know I would help but I got this back thing goin' on and a touch of the gout and a .......


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By phil broscovak
Jan 20, 2007
Dreamin' Dawg

Gigette, What happened to your 'whack a mole' post? I loved it.


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By Dirty Gri Gri, or is it GiGi?
From Vegas
Jan 20, 2007
Growing a winter coat in Red Rock Canyon- December 2013.

I figured that some peoples' computers may not like those moving images, and I didn't want it to interfere with anyone who may be having trouble when pulling up this topic.

But if you really miss it Phil; come to Vegas, and I'll take you to Circus Circus to play Whack-A-Mole. We can compete. The loser will have to try every item at the buffet, and have a picture taken in front of the scary clown statue, with a jumbo foot long hot dog in hand for all the world to see.

SAVE THE CHILDREN!
IMPLODE CIRCUS CIRCUS!


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By phil broscovak
May 1, 2008
Dreamin' Dawg

Well I just got back from a week in RR. Stayed at the 13 mile campground and am disappointed to say nothing has changed except more gates and tank buster speed bumps. I don't think they have pumped out the "vaults" since last year and the brimming effluence was thickly wafting through the whole camp. You shouldn't have to experience 'splash back' before they siphon off the poo stew. Baby wipes are a 13 mile camp necessity. Ok I agree that $10 a night is very affordable and with my Golden Access pass it is only $5 a night which is really cheap but it would still be nice to have tolerable toilets and host-ier hosts. I know that I am spoiled rotten from too many years of renegade camping but, come on, do those folks really have to be so pissy about everything? They were on campers cases within 3 minutes of any perceived offence. Rules are rules you would say and I would agree but they did nothing about the through the night, everynight, roar of several RV generators. So who do the rules apply to? These unpleasant souls are more prison GUARDS than campground HOSTS. They circle endlessly in their golfcarts and trucks like carrion. They regularly approach tent campers with a "guilty til proven less guilty" attitude. They needlessly spread a pall of negativity around the campground. Regardless of how 'rowdy' climbers have been they do not need to be so dour and nasty. A little Andy Taylor of Mayberry approach would go a long way with the Barney Fifes and Gomer Piles in the campground. Those folks are after all simply accessing 'their' public lands. They do not need to be harassed by the intolerant employees of 'their' public moneys while in engaging in 'their' quest for Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


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By Timmy Fearn
May 2, 2008
Heading out of the pod at the beginning of the second pitch. <br /> <br />Photo Courtesy of Whitney Cammack

I noticed that if I planned a trip 6 months in advance to Las Vegas I could fly round trip from Salt Lake City and stay in several handfuls of hotels with a rental car included for somewhere around 400 dollars for a full nine days. I'm sure for the dedicated and hearty world explorer there are plenty of alternatives to make surviving the exploration of Red Rock Canyon a grand and memorable tale with which to fill ones empty moments with.


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By Charles Dalgleish
From Salt Lake City, Utah
May 2, 2008
Flakes of Wrath in Moab Utah.

Not sure about this particular campground, but many camp hosts are paid a commission. If your money was on the line, think you may be a little hard nosed aabout it too. That said, I wholly agree with the notion of getting more flies with honey than vinegar (but full septics will get you more I suppose).

Here's a question though, do you think that you would be approached if you had paid and camped according to the rules?

Kinda like people that get upset at cops being rude when they get a speedig ticket I suppose. While the cop could certainly be more friendly, it wouldn't be an issue if you raised the lead foot a bit.


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