Hi Everyone,

I just wanted to talk a little bit about the different projects that the Las Vegas Climbing Liaison Council is working on and needs your help with. It has been an exciting couple of months for us and we are moving and shaking!

1. Make a Difference Day October 27th- Friends of Red Rock Canyon is doing a graffiti removal and trail rehabilitation for Make a Difference Day October 27th. The LVCLC is supporting this event by helping with graffiti removal efforts. This event will run from 8:00am to 12:00pm so plenty of time to get climbing in. Lunch and water will be provided. There will also be REI paticipant shirts, door prizes, and live music during lunch! For more information, Contact Lisa Buchina at lbuchin@rei.com

2. The LVCLC in partnership with the BLM will be putting in carsonite signs at the local pee spots near the Black Corridor and Fear and Loathing. We are hopeful to have this project complete by January. Sanrda Horna will be team lead on this project.


3. The LVCLC will be replacing some of the worn out chains on anchors in the sport climbing/non wilderness areas. We will be replacing the old chains with quick links, stainless steel chains and hardware as needed. Bolts will only be replaced if absolutely necessary

4. Wag Bags Anyone???? We are trying to put some effort in putting together a wag bag initiative. We just need to find people who are interested in being team leads. Please contact Amy (Miller) Ansari at amyvansari@yahoo.com if you are interested.

5. Adopt-A-Crag Clean Up. We are hoping to partner with Shayne in his clean up efforts. I am hoping to speak with him this evening.

6. Educational efforts- we are trying to start a slide show series on the climbing pioneers of Red Rocks. For more info contact Killis Howard at killischoward@hotmail.com

That is all for now. But if anyone has any advice on chains that need to be replaced, would like to volunteer, be a team lead, or become a member. Contact Amy (Miller) Ansari at amyvansari@yahoo.com.

Hi Amy,

I'm curious about the carsonite signs you spoke of. Are they supposed to warn people not to urinate or defecate; or are they there to warn people they may be fined for such action; or are they being posted to bring notice to the problem? I don't think a sign is going to have any effect when people feel nature calling as they often do when pondering a lead. The ONLY solution is to provide facilities in areas where there appears to be alot of "potty action". Sign or not, that "potty action" is going to continue. Where people climb, people urinate and defecate. Where there are large numbers of climbers, there will be large amounts of such spots. Other than closing the area to climbers, the only solution is to provide the previously mentioned facilities. Not a great solution. Maybe not even practical
Or we could go the way of the humble local and invite the world to our awesome climbing area with the knowledge that a few times each year we, the locals, will clean up all the nasties that everyone leaves behind and welcome them all back for more. I climb with a very conscientious group, however if we're in the Black Corridor or over at the gallery and nature calls, we look for a descreet spot (usually already used) nearby - we do not go all the way to the parking lot to relieve ourselves. Who does? Leaving the Owens Gorge was not practical so they have facilities in the gorge. What a visonary move. But then again, public land managers there have embraced climbing as part of the activities and have done what their job title says to do - manage the land! I do not beleive that the BLM here has ever embraced the climbing scene at the Red Rocks and have NEVER managed the land in accordance with their title. They have insisted, demanded, and threatened this climbing community, but they have never "managed" any continuity between the climbers and the land. I don't want to continue on a negative note. If you need help or volunteers, I am always willing to get involved and your efforts are appreciated.

I tend to agree with Dan. There's too many signs out there already.

Thanks for chiming in, Dan. I think you raise some concerns that have been felt around here for quite a while. I know that Vegas threw me off drastically when I got here-the crazy sport climbing ethics, the tourons, the "Poo Corridor" and other stuff were bookended by the Birdland fiasco-one has to ask-is there any sanity out here at all?

I think yes. Mark Limage (Mr.Birdland himself) was the motive power behind the LVCLC's inception, Jed Botsford is in frequent contact with movers and shakers at the LVCLC and is psyched to see where we're going with this and how he can help (Jed's personally volunteered to help hands-on with replacing chains at the Gallery, a place he's not really psyched to climb at, but wants to help out nonetheless), Larry DeAngelo and Amy continue to provide the wisdom and checks and balances that keep the rest of us on track, and, in case you haven't noticed, I'm taking care of mouthpiece duties.

It sounds like your mindset puts you well in line with what we're trying to do-why not show up to the next meeting, down a beer with us, and see if your input and unique perspective can help things move forward with some of the projects.

Jake, Lisa and Shayne (are you out there, man?) are working on getting cleanups done at some of the hotspots such as those you mentioned, going in and "doing the nasty" is definitely on the docket for myself and Jake (whose greenclimber deal is worth showing up to a LVCLC meeting alone just to hear about), and we're trying to get a "many hands make light work" approach to some common problems at Red Rock going to make an impact and refute the urban legend that climber's just don't give a crap. In fact, if you want to help, we'll be taking some out. (this space for laughter)

Anyone that's psyched and wants to get out and get s**t done is more than welcome to join up with us. We're open to new projects if there's an area of concern that we haven't so far addressed.

If I missed anything, it's not for lack of trying. Info on the next meeting should be posted in a few days.

While I went off, John was throwing in his 2cents-there is definitely a feeling expressed at our meetings that we want to minimize signage, but the situation at the Corridor, Gallery, and Wall Of Confusion are out of hand and it's pretty obvious that implementing wag bags and a couple of small signs (there are a few thousand of the flexy [carsonite?] ones that we'll likely be using already in place as road markers around the loop) may offer a way to make a dent in what otherwise might eventually be a health issue and a reason to point the finger at climbers for our behavior in Red Rock. Thanks for the input and any better ideas than we've got are always welcome-for further details on what's going on, hit up a meeting and we'll hash it out. -K

I wrote this a couple hours ago, and got stuck in a meeting. So I am posting it now.

Hi Calicodan,

Thanks for your post and for your support. I understand that the carsonite signs will not stop the constant peeing and pooing in the areas. But it could at least get people to think about packing out their toilet paper or using proper leave no trace practices when they need to take a dump. (Yep, education is another component LVCLC is working on : )) But the main thing is we are trying. You don’t know until you try. It is a small contribution that just may help reduce the smell of urine when someone walks into black corridor. In addition, it will give the presence that the local climbing community does care about their area. Thanks again calicodan for you comment and support, and I look forward to meeting you!!!!

P.S it would be dreamy to have a set up like Smith Rock’s, Cedar chip smelling porta-a pottys Oh Heaven!. But we can only do what we can for now.

Later,
AVM

Wag bags - in my experience these are a hard sell. I use them regularly (what pun?), but my GI is different than yours (it was made unique by several surgeries). Although something like a wag bag is s.o.p. for wall climbers, and their use is spreading in popular alpine climbing areas, your run-of-the-mill day-use free-climber just doesn't find the concept very appealing. I think you gotta start with education, and start with packing out toilet paper.

You could also buy some gloves and tongs, and put on some very public Saturday afternoon cleanups. Be sure to post pictures on the web.

Composting toilets - you have three things to figure out. You'll have to purchase them. You have to find a location for them. And someone has to maintain them. You can probably work out purchase and maintenance, but where exactly are you going to locate them? Not in the wash! That's like proposing to build a town on a floodplain. And you have to consider the visual and olfactory aesthetics, for climbers and for people at the overlooks. I frankly think you just need to remind people that it's a very short hike back to the pull-out.

I think WAG bags are the answer but, you're right, it's a hard sell. Coincidentally, it was the Black Corridor that put me over the edge. I walked in last spring and, right there in front of the ledge you have to stand up on to to get into the corridor itself was a big, fresh steaming coiler! Holy Shit! (NPI) While it might have been hard to see someone squatting from inside the corridor, anyone approaching would have had to step over the squatter. There was no attempt to cover it up, scrape it off to the side or move it anywhere.

I always carry multiple WAG bags now when I go cragging. When I need to go I announce that I'm going to "fill up a WAG bag", ask if anyone else needs to use it (They'll easily hold a few coilers.) and when I return, I hold it up in all it's warm shiny glory. If someone else heads off, I always ask them if they need a WAG back. If they say no they don't use them, I ask that they please do because I'm tired of running into their piles of shit at my crags. I even offer to carry the WAG bag out for them.

I think it's only by setting examples ourselves that we'll make WAG bags SOP at the crags. I have to make a big deal about it right now because their use is so "off the curve" but in the not too distant future I think that they'll be considered normal. River rats have been carrying out their shit for 30 years. Wall climbers have been doing it for 15. 3 years ago Denali National Park implemented a mandatory "carry out your shit" rule and now the mountain is clean and doesn't stink. I think it's about time at all users of the backcountry carry it out.

Don't you?

Mal

BTW, The ReStop II bags are way superior to the WAG bag brand. More TP, better bag and cheaper. Sorry for the lecture but it's getting gross out there.

Don't forget to pick up your dog's shit, too.

Malcolm Daly, you, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. I carry the bags, usually don't make a big deal out of it, but your post has me inspired. That's exactly what needs to be happening. The more people we can get to follow this example, the less shit we'll all be in. Literally.

Thanks a lot, Mal.