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Moving up in aiders on vertical/ overhanging terrain.
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By PosiDave
Mar 19, 2012
Just practiced my first few pitches of aid. I have watched a few videos,etc,etc.

I went out and set up a solo toprope and aided a few c1 pitches. Everything went great but moving up in the aiders.

Macnamaras video worked alrite. But my issue is finding a comfortable spot to grab onto the aider and step up.

System I used: 2 aiders/ no fifi hook.

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By S Denny
From Carbondale, CO
Mar 19, 2012
grab a biner, grab loop, thumb loop of cam, rock... adjustable daisies (yates) on overhanging terrain are a dream cause you can ratchet yourself piece to piece

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By Matt Kuehl
From the desert
Mar 19, 2012
Plumbers Crack
Might try clipping your aider in with an oval biner, besides the sewn loop handle on the aider it's probably the most inviting thing to hold.

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By kilonot
Mar 19, 2012
Did you make your own aiders Dave? I am in the same boat. With about the same experience except I've now done one short incredibly long pitch on lead. It hurts like a *&$## when your hand is pinched between some sharp rock and the aider with all your weight on it.

For now I am using a short sling clipped to the aider's oval as a handle. Got some ladder style aiders with built in grab handle on the way. =)

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By kilonot
Mar 19, 2012
Any chance you are located in the northeast?

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By PosiDave
Mar 19, 2012
I have Yates alpine etriers. I was using the loop and that worked. The climb was pretty easy 5.9 and the aider was sliding into the crack so that is where the issue was. but a biner on the loop I guess would have worked. never came into my head to do so ...

I am in the northeast (NJ)

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By Wade J.
From Boulder, CO
Mar 19, 2012
winter aid climbing
Hey Dave,

If your grab loop is falling into a monster crack while aiding, I suggest doing what Zack did. A short piece of webbing tied off with a water knot is a lot more comfortable than some of the narrow slings out there. Easier to fish out of a crack than the grab loop. Using a fifi also makes a world of difference. You can improvise with a binder on a loop girthed to your harness too, but it's a lot more cumbersome on the steep stuff.

If you head out to the gunks for aid, check out this site first. It's a pretty good resource.
ghiz.org/gunksaid.shtml

Cheers.

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By Eric Fjellanger
Mar 19, 2012
Me on top of Chianti Spire
Does someone say you should not use a fifi hook (or an adjustable daisy)? Someone told me this the other day, it doesn't make sense to me. It seems like steep aid would be extremely difficult.

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By Wade J.
From Boulder, CO
Mar 19, 2012
winter aid climbing
I've yet to try the adjustable daisy but my buddy likes them. My first aid was near vertical and without a fifi, it was a workout. I wouldn't want to get on anything over hanging without one. I can't think of a reason why a fife would be a bad thing.

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By Darren Mabe
From Flagstaff, AZ
Mar 19, 2012
wham bam hand jam. Wrapping up the final moves of Twist of Fate, Oak Creek Canyon. <br /> <br />photo: Blake McCord
fifis and daisies are aid

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By PosiDave
Mar 19, 2012
Eric Fjellanger wrote:
Does someone say you should not use a fifi hook (or an adjustable daisy)? Someone told me this the other day, it doesn't make sense to me. It seems like steep aid would be extremely difficult.



Some people say that if you aren't carefully it can rotate and cause you to daisy fall. I have one just wanted to do it without if I could on verticalish terrain.

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By PosiDave
Mar 19, 2012
Has anyone aided anything around NJ or Eastern PA? the DWG has quite a few aid route. not sure if anything will go clean. And I am against using a hammer.

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By brian hess
From Logan, Utah
Mar 19, 2012
the glorious pitch 7
I don't think a fifi is needed in jugging fixed lines other than maybe to help with cleaning gear, resting, etc. I just have 2 daisy chains on my ascenders/aiders adjusted to the length that best works for me Still I would be sure to have your fifi on you, I just don't usaully use it when jugging.

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By PosiDave
Mar 19, 2012
I was talking about leading aid. not following. Don't see the need for it then really either.

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By brian hess
From Logan, Utah
Mar 19, 2012
the glorious pitch 7
my bad. definately use a fifi hook

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By Eric Fjellanger
Mar 19, 2012
Me on top of Chianti Spire
PosiDave wrote:
Some people say that if you aren't carefully it can rotate and cause you to daisy fall. I have one just wanted to do it without if I could on verticalish terrain.


There are many things that can go wrong if you aren't careful. I agree about McNamara's advice to not use the fifi when you don't have to, but I don't see any reason not to bring one. Without one you don't have an easy way to rest or get both hands free.

Regarding the original question, I usually grab the biner that has the daisy and aider on it. I use ovals for this and it's easy to grab. However, aid is all about doing what is most effective. So do what works best, whether it's grabbing the piece itself, the aider, the rock, whatever.

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By ian watson
From Albuquerque, NM
May 8, 2012
ZachR wrote:
It hurts like a *&$## when your hand is pinched between some sharp rock and the aider with all your weight on it. =)



X2 my hand is still healing from the weekend before last.I was shifting onto the 2nd aider and took a slight swing and it felt like heaven. I left a blood trail on the line I took to the top.

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By Will S
From Joshua Tree
May 8, 2012
Adjustable daisies are the bomb diggity, especially when you are relatively new and on steep terrain...just don't use them for bounce testing, or for your primary connection at an anchor.

With adjustables, the feeling of "I'm gonna pitch over backwards" isn't an issue at all, nor is trying to lock off and getting bicep pumped while wiggling a fifi into a daisy pocket.

And know that as the webbing wears, they can start to slip...or at least the ones with ancra style buckles will, somewhere around the 75-100 pitch range.

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By kevin deweese
From Oakland, Ca
May 8, 2012
Birds and Beards
PosiDave wrote:
I was talking about leading aid. not following. Don't see the need for it then really either.


A fifi can be helpful in cleaning when passing your upper ascender over a piece.

You can fifi into the lower ascender and rest on the fifi while you go through the actions of moving the upper ascender. Otherwise you'll need to balance on your feet or hold yourself in with one hand on the lower jug which takes energy.
Granted it's not that much of an issue, but in the end, if you're leading and cleaning over the course of the route, why go out of your way to take something off that can be convenient?

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By Leeroy
May 8, 2012
Will S wrote:
Adjustable daisies are the bomb diggity, especially when you are relatively new and on steep terrain...just don't use them for bounce testing,


I've bounced on thousands of placements with my adjustable daisies. Please tell me why I'm gonna die.

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By kevin deweese
From Oakland, Ca
May 8, 2012
Birds and Beards
Leeroy wrote:
I've bounced on thousands of placements with my adjustable daisies. Please tell me why I'm gonna die.


I would like to hear as well.

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By John D
May 8, 2012
Dude, try the south face of washington column, especially the Kor roof, with out a fifi or adjustable daisy. If you can do it, you're way more of a hardman than I am. If it's steep, or much more than C1, you can bet that I'm using a fifi or adjustable daisy chain (I prefer adjustables)

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By Greg G
From SLC, UT
May 23, 2012
The route in it's entirety.
grab whatever you can to get your feet into the next logical step, and get up in those aiders! my problem is hanging around, and not getting up in the aider to fifi in to the top most biner. since once im fifi'd in i can easily top step and be on my way. aiding still requires some agility after all. have fun!

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