By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Jul 18, 2012
| Guy Keesee wrote: I leave my entire RACK and ROPE out at local crags all the time.
I'm all for trust, all for not stealing, all for this dude getting his draws back, but man...you leave your stuff out like you'll be back here crying about how your stuff got stolen and how it's not fair.
I try to always keep my gear next to the route I'm climbing unless we happen to be alone and it's an extra 5 feet away, try not to leave my pack on the ground, lock my bike, lock my house etc.
But I'm originally from the East Coast. You get enough shit stolen, you'll stop leaving things out. I had all my tapes (yes tapes) stolen from the closet pump at a gas station when I was the SECOND person in line paying.
Rule #2...Don't leave your shit out unless you can accept the possiblity of it being taken. | 
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By J. Albers
From Colorado
Jul 18, 2012
| CJC wrote: you don't know why these draws were removed, no one does. @ albers: leaving them at the base is exactly what I would have done. you don't know me quit frontin.
My post never implied that I know you or what you would have done in the current situation, so I am not sure how "I be frontin". However, just to be clear, I wasn't necessarily calling you a D-bag personally, but rather calling a hypothetical draw remover/keeper a D-bag. |
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By Brent Apgar
Jul 19, 2012
| I agree that usually these threads are boring as hell but I can't resist in this case.
THE best part of this whole thing is that it's French's Dome... oh my god, where to begin?
This place is a total pile of crap that wouldn't seem like a good place to climb no matter where it was and how bad the surrounding terrain was.
It's frequented by all manner of folks other than climbers and accessing the top of the dome isn't very difficult. Don't believe me, there's usually evidence of parties on top in the form of full on bonfire remains and broken glass everywhere.
To weigh in though: It's pretty straight forward, there are lame people (climbers and non climbers)out there who take shit. If you really don't want to risk losing it, don't leave it. |
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By splitclimber
Jul 20, 2012
| STOLEN. plain and simple. lots of BS on this thread as usual.
I hope you get your STOLEN draws back. |
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By Marc H
From Lafayette, CO
Jul 20, 2012
| Ryan Pecknold wrote: [I abandoned some gear at a climbing area and someone cleaned up for me.] ..this is heinous.
You abandon your gear in the woods and then call it "heinous" when it walks away!? I think you need a little perspective in your life.
I don't know if this major story has made its way into your little world, so I'll fill ya in: a bunch of people went to go enjoy a movie last night and some sick fuck shot 71 of them because he apparently didn't like the way his life was going.
Your first-world "problems" are far from heinous. Don't leave your gear in the woods and it won't walk away.
splitclimber wrote: ABANDONED. plain and simple. lots of GOOD POINTS on this thread as usual. I hope you get your ABANDONED draws back.
There, I fixed it for ya. |
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By germsauce
Jul 20, 2012
| CJC, why not take the hangers out and leave them at the base of any crag you dare to sport climb at? Unless you climb purely on trad routes with zero fixed gear, you are relying on gear that others have done the work to "hang" for you. I mean, those anchors you clip are abandoned right? you ought to unscrew those things and leave them at the base to teach the route equipper a lesson.
Stealing is stealing, you are not cool or smart enough to warrant removing someone's gear in the name of"teaching a lesson". and being glad someone's shit got stolen? C'mon, I dare you to tell someone that to their face. |
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By Vaughne
Jul 20, 2012
| What if I ride my bike to a trailhead and leave it there unlocked while I hike all day. If someone takes it while I'm out that would be a clear cut case of theft. I think that taking these draws is essentially the same thing: theft. The only case where it isn't theft is when something is clearly abandoned. Leaving draws overnight is not abandonment by ANY stretch of the imagination. |
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By Kenny Thompson
From woodfords, california
Jul 20, 2012
| J. Albers wrote: " in the past when I have found that someone has left gear up in a place where I think it is poor form, guess what I do? I take it down and leave it in a pile at the base of the route. That way I have communicated to the offending party that fixed gear is not cool at this location, but I have made sure that they get their gear back. See, pretty easy solution to getting your point across without being a high-on-your-horse doucewad. .
That sounds like the epitomy of a high on your horse douchewad. |
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By J. Albers
From Colorado
Jul 20, 2012
| Kenny Thompson wrote: That sounds like the epitomy of a high on your horse douchewad.
How exactly does my response make me the epitome of a high on your horse douchebag? The part about not wanting to "teach" someone a lesson....oh wait that can't be it. You must mean that I am being high on my horse because I am calling a particular hypothetical type of behavior douchy. So by your standard, any time someone posts a judgement that behavior 'X' is douchy, then they are being high their horse? That casts a pretty broad net don't you think? |
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By Kenny Thompson
From woodfords, california
Jul 20, 2012
| If I pulled your gear of a route and left it in a pile at the base I would think that was a "douchewad" thing to do. There's been times recently in fact that I would like to do something similar but I don't want to be a member of the self appointed ethics police. Speaking of Ethics can someone tell me what is the difference between rap bolting and top roping a route into submission and then putting the bolts in on a top rope? Please don't take my comment personally Jay. |
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By J. Albers
From Colorado
Jul 20, 2012
| Kenny Thompson wrote: If I pulled your gear of a route and left it in a pile at the base I would think that was a "douchewad" thing to do.
Huh. Well, its not like I go running around taking fixed gear down...shit, I'd be at it all winter at Gold Wall and Jailhouse. My comment is simply suggesting what I think is a happy medium between taking fixed gear down and keeping it versus simply taking the gear down, while trying to make sure it gets back to its owner. The question concerning whether the fixed gear should be taken down at all is a whole different question and is totally situation dependent. |
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By splitclimber
Jul 20, 2012
| nope - STOLEN - sorry.
climbers stealing from climbers. Oh joy. then climbers saying it is OK to steal other climbers gear on a climbing site. |
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By Crag Dweller
From Denver, CO
Jul 20, 2012
| agd wrote: There's a big difference between discretely hiding your rack and rope (which I assume you are doing) and leaving hundreds of dollars dangling in plain view. That I have no problem with... Being too lazy to take the draws down, or being so undisciplined that you "just couldn't imagine climbing it any other way" is rediculous. Just because you lack the skill to place the draw doesn't give you the unbridled right to leave your shit around for sake of convenience.
So, what's the difference? And, how does that difference justify taking someone else's climbing gear?
If I leave my gear sitting at the base of a crag in plain sight while I'm off climbing a route around the corner, are you entitled to take it? I mean, I was being lazy. I could've carried it around the corner with me and it's right there in plain view...tempting you.
Or, how about if I hike in four hours to check out an alpine route and tuck all my gear discreetly under a boulder so that I can hike back out and it'll be there in the morning? Sure, I'm too lazy to hike it all back in and I'm leaving it there over night but it's discretely placed.
Your reasoning is arbitrary BS. Leaving your draws on a route at 9 pm so that you can come back and work the route at 9 am doesn't hurt anyone and it sure as shit doesn't have any impact on access issues.
Stop trying to rationalize your belief that it's ok to steal someone else's stuff. |
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By Kenny Thompson
From woodfords, california
Jul 20, 2012
| Don't leave your keys in your car someone may think it's abondoned |
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By Guy Keesee
Jul 20, 2012
| CJC and agd, yes I called you out on rule #1 because to take some joy in the fact that this dude had stuff stolen is kinda jerkey. No?
It looks like all the folks who see gear as trash come from Colorado.
Maybe its just me, but I hate stealing, in any form.
And I think you should beable to leave your bike at a trailhead, your skis in the snow and your car keys in the ignition.
I would draw a line about QDs.... if out and hanging for more than a few days, bring em down.
And I REALLY do hate ugly fixed chain draws.... really do.
So you all have fun. |
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By sfotex
From Sandy, UT
Jul 21, 2012
| I remember my grandpa teaching me that taking stuff that doesn't belong to you is stealing, no matter how you try to spin it... but he was part of that generation that had morals and ethics and stuff. |
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By Derek Huff
Jul 21, 2012
| sfotex wrote: I remember my grandpa teaching me that taking stuff that doesn't belong to you is stealing, no matter how you try to spin it... but he was part of that generation that had morals and ethics and stuff.
Ohhhh god. Not the "kids these days" arguement. Cause people never stole stuff but in the 1940's. Time to go back to the retirement home sfotex! |
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By caughtinside
From Oakland CA
Jul 21, 2012
| J. Albers wrote: Huh. Well, its not like I go running around taking fixed gear down...shit, I'd be at it all winter at Gold Wall and Jailhouse. My comment is simply suggesting what I think is a happy medium between taking fixed gear down and keeping it versus simply taking the gear down, while trying to make sure it gets back to its owner. The question concerning whether the fixed gear should be taken down at all is a whole different question and is totally situation dependent.
I've heard the suggestion to strip the draws and leave them in a pile at the base before... but it seems to me that leaving a pile of draws at the base of a route is just serving up the draws to the real bottom feeders. Sure, you didn't take them, but if you're leaving someone's gear at the base where any gumby could grab them? |
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By JesseT
From Portland, OR
Jul 21, 2012
| Crag Dweller wrote: So, what's the difference? And, how does that difference justify taking someone else's climbing gear?...
I'd say the difference is something along the lines of going to a friend's house with a duffel bag full of your stuff and leaving the bag discretely in the corner while you're not using its contents vs. emptying its contents out on the floor and leaving them there while you're not using them (if you're not on the route, and it's not a route you're developing then you're not currently using it. Consensus?). One is in poorer taste than the other.
To answer part 2: it absolutely doesn't justify stealing, and I hope the OP gets his draws back.
Edit: Besides which, stolen gear never holds anyway. Especially stuff with stress multipliers etched into it (I shuddered a bit when I read that part). |
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By CJC
Jul 21, 2012
| Crag Dweller wrote: Stop trying to rationalize your belief that it's ok to steal someone else's stuff.
stop trying to rationalize your belief that it's ok to leave your crap strewn about the crag |
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By Jake Jones
From The Eastern Flatlands
Jul 21, 2012
| Stop trying to rationalize yours that 20 high dollar draws that come up missing in 12 hours from 9pm to 9am is anything but theft. |
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By sfotex
From Sandy, UT
Jul 21, 2012
| Derek Huff wrote: Ohhhh god. Not the "kids these days" arguement. Cause people never stole stuff but in the 1940's. Time to go back to the retirement home sfotex!
Err, I was more talking about people like you then kids. |
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