I'm looking for information on some of the none bolted climbs at Petenwell, along with the first accents of the bolted routes. I'm writing a guidebook for my capstone project at Minnesota State, Mankato, and any information would be very useful.

Why is there such a need within the climbing community to develop guidebooks? There are plenty of guides already out explaining routes all oner the country and with the addition of the internet guidebooks are almost obsolete. I think instead of more guidebooks describing routes we need guidebooks explaining proper ethics and style. The rock climbing community seems to be the most disfunctional of all user groups/ sports groups. Until the community becomes more responsible both socially as well as enviromentally, the idea of another guidebook being developed makes me cringe.

Most guidebooks today include a section on proper climbing ethics and style. Plus, I doubt the average climber wants to be lectured on one's own dogmatic idea of ethics and style, let alone be bored with a cookie-cutter guidebook. Climbers traditionally have been a fringe group, therefore disagreements within the community are common. Plus, the sport of climbing has many differnt communities(i.e. sport, trad, bouldering, big wall, alpine, aid, deep water soloing, etc). One set of ethics for one community of climbers may not apply to the other community. I'm sorry my guidebook will make you cring, but maybe we should all take a note from Royal Robbins after completing the second accent of the Dawn Wall using Harding's "bad style", "Although the climb may not have been done exactly to our taste, and although we might have fretful little critisms that envy always produces, we can better spend our energy in ways other than ripping and tearing, or denigrating the accomplishments of others...".

The reason I want to write this guidebook is (1) the information on the web is incomplete, and (2) it is a fun, creative project that offers experience in many disiplines.

Ryan,

I think a lot of climbers in Wisconsin are a little skittish about drawing attention to the sanstone cliffs. What happened to Gibraltar could easily happen to other cliffs in the area. You speak of the climbing community being vast and multifaceted, and to this I agree. However, the rock resource in southen Wisconsin is not in any way vast. Losing Gibraltar was a much larger blow to the southern WI community than losing, say, Cave Rock would be to the Lake Tahoe community. Other areas have more rock...we in Wisconsin don't.

I thought long and hard about posting the initial Necedah information on this site. I came to the conclusion that some information should get out there, mostly because I consider the routes at Necedah on-par in quality with any others in the country. However, I feared something like a guidebook-frenzy would result.

Incomplete information (as you called the web info regarding Necedah) is not by itself a bad thing. I'm sure Royal Robbins (who you also reference) had little information regarding the Salathe Wall when he first climbed it. He did not have a Supertopo in his back pocket. He discovered the climbing on his own, as many future climbers can also do at Necedah. I would rather have the routes partially known and open, than well-documented and closed.

I urge you to think about the impact that a published guidebook would have on the access of Necedah. I think I speak for the majority of the community when I say that we don't want Necedah to go the way of Gibraltar.

Jay,

Thank you for your comments about Necedah. Access to Necedah is questionable, and every climber should keep that in mind when they climb there. Keeping a low profile and picking up litter would definitely give climbers a positive image. Currently, the area is trashed by visitors. Water bottles are stuck in cracks, cigarette butts have been left on rocks,and I've seen burnt clothing thrown about the trails. I don't even want to know how that happened! If we (Wisconsin) climbers want to keep our limited crags, we need to protect them and take care of them. I don't plan on publishing my guidebook or posting it on the internet. I would like if this thread was ignored or taken off because I shouldn't have written it.

Peace Out

Ryan,

I think many climbers are heartened by your response. I would like to think that climbers are not the source of the litter, but I guess that would be wishful thinking. Thank you for seeing the importance of keeping Necedah low key.

I was there the wknd before last and the parking lot was overflowing with cars. As I walked up the East trail I saw a large party with ropes and an extension ladder; (I saw no drill) but assumed they were bolting. It may be a good idea in the future to spread out to different parking areas (a walk wont kill us anyway) to avoid the attention drawn by that many vehicles. Just a thought for the future.

After years of climbing at necedah I have never encountered a nonclimber who was upset in the slightest about us climbing there. I was there this past weekend when some folks walked by the Y wall while I was leading Strait No Chaser. My buddy mike talked with them for a while as they watched me climb and they were into the whole thing. If anything, I was a hero to their kids, and an amusement to them. Has anyone ever encountered any hostility at Necedah from non climbers? The only thing that might give us a bad name is if people think we are responsible for all that fucking garbage spread about. Or, if climbers are just assholes in general to the non climbing public. Lets all just be cool... Most people think what we do is pretty amazing. Lets keep it that way. Oh, NIclips, what you saw may be a very rare phenomenon. Extension latter? Bolting? I don't know what the hell a ladder has to do with bolting a route, but I would love to know what they had it up there for...

I guess an extension ladder would suffice when presented with a tricky bottom sequence and no stick-clip is available. Ha Ha...Yeah, there are two decent parking lots at Necedah located on opposite ends of the climbing area. One to the North and a small, three car stall located to the south. Use the North lot to access Anthrax Wall, The Outsiders, the River Walls, and the Hell Wall. Others park in the south lot is access Y-Crack Wall, the Towers, the Pinnacle Wall, etc. But either lot will be better than parking on the road and really crowding things up. J.J's right, there is way too much litter at Necedah, so try to pack some out. Keep a low profile and be courteous to everyone!!!

Too bad someone wouldn't write a guidebook to raise awareness of conservation and local ethics...Ha Ha

The folks with the extension ladder were collecting "Chicken of the Woods". A large mushroom when baked can be quite tasty. These folks were not bolting but were following there hunger for a yummy mushroom. There are quite a few in the area (or were until these folks cultivated them).

And yes- there is quite a bit of trash at Neceedah. Climbers should carry a plastic garbage bag with them when climbing there and try and make an effort to pick some of it up in the immediate area they are climbing. BUT - it is important to remember that it is not climbers trashing the place. Local murading partier types throw buts and beer cans/bottles all over there.... Ever been to Gibraltor Rock in Columbia Co. and you instantly know of what I speak. It is obvious to say but climbers can do a great bit of good in being stewards of this place by helping clean it up when in the area....

Ahah! So it is the mushrooms the ladder-wielding types are after! I was wondering. I again saw a ladder being carried from the quarry wall are last Sunday. Thanx for the info.