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Mentmore was trashed...not cool
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By mbakerwh
From Gallup, NM
May 5, 2014

This is my time to stand on a soap-box and remind folks that leaving trash, making fires, and leaving a climbing area a wreck is not cool.

Yesterday I popped out to Mentmore, a local crag in Gallup, NM (where I live) for a couple laps.

www.mountainproject.com/v/mentmore/105788247

Its nice living 10 minutes away, short routes, weathers good year round, kinda like an outdoor gym. But when I got there, someone had made a large (5 feet across) fire ring that had 6 beer cans in the bottom of it, all charred up, right at the base of one of my favorite climbs! Like less than 10 feet from the cliff base! There were also some gatorade bottles and other assorted trashy items. I'm pretty sure it wasnt climbers who did this, but others--Still I was pretty bummed out.

I grabbed some of the beer cans and gatorade bottles and threw them away but when we finished it was dark and I'm not sure I got them all. Next time I'm out, I'll work on cleaning up further/breaking up the fire ring more. Thanks to everyone who takes more trash out than they bring in to crags!


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By David Sahalie
From on the road again
May 5, 2014

This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project.


By mbakerwh
From Gallup, NM
May 5, 2014

David, I think that was one of the least sensitive posts I've seen on MP. I don't know who it was, but I'm certainly not one to make gross generalizations about entire cultures of people! I think it wasnt climbers because all of the climbers I've met here in Gallup have been fairly considerate...In fact, several of my Navajo climbing buddies have organized clean up days for our local crag.

Oh, and in terms of climbing towers, if you're polite, considerate, and friendly at crags, you might meet some native american climbers who are willing to invite you out to climb with them on their land some day.

I may have just been trolled, but given the sentiment of many white folks around here I'm quite afraid I wasnt.....


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By mbakerwh
From Gallup, NM
May 5, 2014

Cheers to admin at MP for removing the above post.


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By J Q
May 5, 2014
Me again!

.



Do you even know where you are living? Blaming climbers for that mess is f-in stupid, it's near the res, I know that res, it ain't climbers. That place was completely trashed 15 years ago and will be trashed in another 15, it's the local get drunk and shoot shit kind of scene. This kind of post can only hurt the image of climbers.

Obviously you are not from the SW, so where are you from?

Let me guess:

East coast right?


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By Kai Huang
From Thornton, CO
May 5, 2014

mbakerwh wrote:
I'm pretty sure it wasnt climbers who did this, but others--Still I was pretty bummed out.


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By David Sahalie
From on the road again
May 5, 2014

"I don't know who it was, but I'm certainly not one to make gross generalizations about entire cultures of people! ."

If you don't know who it was, why are you posting on a climbing site? Mentmore has all kinds of trash and graffiti, and I would bet none of it other than the odd finger tape or goo packet, is from climbers.

After the traveling around the 4 corners area for years, and seeing the massive amounts of trash, including no less than 10 oil changes with oil pools and filters left in the desert, I have become what some could call a bit cynical about certain native peoples and their supposed 'sacred' respect for the land.

Are you proposing there is a traveling band of white redneck hillbillies driving around the rez starting fires, drinking beer and doing oil changes?


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By jeff lebowski
May 5, 2014

Jesus, enough with the stereotypes. I lived in 8 states in the East, West, and Midwest as well as overseas and guess what, everywhere has people who trash the environment. It has nothing to do with ethnicity but I suspect it might have something to do with socio-economic status.


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By Jamespio
May 5, 2014

David Sahalie wrote:
Are you proposing there is a traveling band of white redneck hillbillies driving around the rez starting fires, drinking beer and doing oil changes?


Have you actually spent much time in the Four Corners, as you claim? If so, you'd know that the above is a distinct possibility, although "white redneck hillbillies" might not be the best description. There is literally no difference between native and non-native New Mexicans (or Arizonans, Utahns, or Coloradans) when it comes to shithead behavior. Actually, there is a distinction, the majority of the shithead college kids whose parties leave the kind of crap described in this thread are likely to be white.

The man posted here because a climbing area was trashed, and he wanted to bitch a little bit, and also THANK those who do more than their share. I appreciate him doing it as a reminder to the rest of us to keep educating everyone we know, including the non-climbers, about the value of natural resources and the need to treat them with respect.


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By Dylan B.
May 5, 2014
Orgasm Direct, Devil's Lake, 5.11a  c. 2008

David Sahalie wrote:
"I don't know who it was, but I'm certainly not one to make gross generalizations about entire cultures of people! ." If you don't know who it was, why are you posting on a climbing site? Mentmore has all kinds of trash and graffiti, and I would bet none of it other than the odd finger tape or goo packet, is from climbers. After the traveling around the 4 corners area for years, and seeing the massive amounts of trash, including no less than 10 oil changes with oil pools and filters left in the desert, I have become what some could call a bit cynical about certain native peoples and their supposed 'sacred' respect for the land. Are you proposing there is a traveling band of white redneck hillbillies driving around the rez starting fires, drinking beer and doing oil changes?


"Some" might call it "a bit cynical." Others would call it "racial prejudice based on stereotypes."


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By David Sahalie
From on the road again
May 5, 2014

Substitute 'experience' for 'stereotypes' and you are correct.

jeff lebowski wrote:
I suspect it might have something to do with socio-economic status.


We have a winner! Unless you are a Koch brother, then you wreck the environment on a huge scale while making huge money.


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By Dylan B.
May 5, 2014
Orgasm Direct, Devil's Lake, 5.11a  c. 2008

David Sahalie wrote:
Substitute 'experience' for 'stereotypes' and you are correct. We have a winner! Unless you are a Koch brother, then you wreck the environment on a huge scale while making huge money.


Judging entire ethnic groups based on your "experience" with some of them is still a stereotype.


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By David Sahalie
From on the road again
May 5, 2014

James Piotrowski wrote:
Have you actually spent much time in the Four Corners, as you claim? If so, you'd know that the above is a distinct possibility, although "white redneck hillbillies" might not be the best description. There is literally no difference between native and non-native New Mexicans (or Arizonans, Utahns, or Coloradans) when it comes to shithead behavior. Actually, there is a distinction, the majority of the shithead college kids whose parties leave the kind of crap described in this thread are likely to be white. The man posted here because a climbing area was trashed, and he wanted to bitch a little bit, and also THANK those who do more than their share. I appreciate him doing it as a reminder to the rest of us to keep educating everyone we know, including the non-climbers, about the value of natural resources and the need to treat them with respect.


I said the 4 corners area, aka the Navajo Rez, not all of the land in all of those states.

If you had spent any time there, you would know that the only people that can live there are, and only can be, Navajo.

But I am intrigued by the idea of random groups partying and doing commando oil changes on their land. Please tell me more.


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By J Q
May 5, 2014
Me again!

James Piotrowski wrote:
Have you actually spent much time in the Four Corners, as you claim? If so, you'd know that the above is a distinct possibility, although "white redneck hillbillies" might not be the best description. There is literally no difference between native and non-native New Mexicans (or Arizonans, Utahns, or Coloradans) when it comes to shithead behavior. Actually, there is a distinction, the majority of the shithead college kids whose parties leave the kind of crap described in this thread are likely to be white. The man posted here because a climbing area was trashed, and he wanted to bitch a little bit, and also THANK those who do more than their share. I appreciate him doing it as a reminder to the rest of us to keep educating everyone we know, including the non-climbers, about the value of natural resources and the need to treat them with respect.


I grew up there, you obviously didn't.

There is a huge difference between native and non native shithead behavior. It is clear that you don't understand the background of the Navajo vs Pueblo vs Spanish vs Anglo situation, where the different populations live or how they live. All of this is pretty important to the situation at hand.



Yep, all those college kids in Gallup. Ruining the environment. When will the madness end?


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By mbakerwh
From Gallup, NM
May 5, 2014

Well that accelerated quickly. Hmmm, I think I mostly felt a need to vent about a pretty sweet climbing spot getting trashed by somebody. Instead of placing blame, or more correctly trying to place blame with zero evidence, we could consider productive alternatives?

Say....maybe if we all dragged out one piece of trash that we didnt bring to each climbing site we go to, the world would be a better place. Possibility?

I posted about it to a climbing site since the resource being abused is a climbing resource, in the form of a crag. Not as a way to place blame to climbers (in fact, I specifically said I thought it likely wasnt climbers), but because I thought maybe climbers would be reminded or perhaps even inspired to help keep land that they care about and climb on clean and in good shape. Thanks so much to all of those who do, and who help out, and who treat areas with the respect they deserve--Without folks doing more than their share, we'd lose access to some pretty amazing places.

Oh, and in terms of my background, I've lived in six states in 22 years: Texas, Washington D.C., Washington State, Massachusetts, Maine, and now New Mexico. There's really no need to make vast generalizations about geographic area OR race is there? And some of the folks on the res are climbers, J Q. I know 'em.


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By J Q
May 5, 2014
Me again!

mbakerwh wrote:
Well that accelerated quickly. Hmmm, I think I mostly felt a need to vent about a pretty sweet climbing spot getting trashed by somebody. Instead of placing blame, or more correctly trying to place blame with zero evidence, we could consider productive alternatives? Say....maybe if we all dragged out one piece of trash that we didnt bring to each climbing site we go to, the world would be a better place. Possibility? I posted about it to a climbing site since the resource being abused is a climbing resource, in the form of a crag. Not as a way to place blame to climbers (in fact, I specifically said I thought it likely wasnt climbers), but because I thought maybe climbers would be reminded or perhaps even inspired to help keep land that they care about and climb on clean and in good shape. Thanks so much to all of those who do, and who help out, and who treat areas with the respect they deserve--Without folks doing more than their share, we'd lose access to some pretty amazing places. Oh, and in terms of my background, I've lived in six states in 22 years: Texas, Washington D.C., Washington State, Massachusetts, Maine, and now New Mexico. There's really no need to make vast generalizations about geographic area OR race is there? And some of the folks on the res are climbers, J Q. I know 'em.



I never said that they weren't. All I said is it ain't college kids.

If you take the trash away from that area someone will just haul more things in to shoot at, I promise. It has been like that forever out there and this conversation won't change a thing, because it ain't climbers and the people who use that place for a drunken shooting gallery don't read this forum.


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