Main Climbing Areas 

Do we really need to have areas duplicated? It seems messy and with the new sorting feature I feel that everything can be resolved and that the pics can be updated to the old current areas.

I agree. Completely unnecessary to have duplicate routes, especially when the person posting them hasn't even climbing some of the stuff. Anyone can copy the guide, but I believe these postings are meant to get additional beta that the guide does not offer. I will continue to post in the original listings. It is not difficult to add to the already listed routes and areas if you have additional info that is pertinent. The Resurgance Wall is probably the only thing that needs a change/breakdown into the individual walls in that area.

Unfortunately, the sorting feature is only available to the area administrators and area author. Neither of the area administrators actually lives in NC and so Eddie Ramirez created the duplicate areas/routes so that he could then sort them. I agree this a very inelegant solution. Ideally, a local climber would have admin rights over this crag and simply combine the new content into the existing areas and then sort the routes.
Tom, Eddie has actually climbed nearly all the stuff here. Including a rare redpoint of Fashion and Skunkpie.

My comment about not climbing everything was when I noticed Instant Karma the 10d trad climb not having any ticks or stars by the author. He barely writes a description, definitely not one that would warrant any additional beta. People visiting this site are looking for more information than the guide book like gear beta, detailed route descriptions, personal feelings, etc... I don't see that additional information in most of his write-ups. Sorting would be low on the list if the route descriptions were more detailed. Leave the climbs unsorted or he should talk to John, saxfiend about getting authorship to the area. Once that is the case he can sort them all, but it shouldn't be so he can make them all his own. I have already contacted sax about this before I commented previously. Not to put down Eddy, because much of his photos and topos are great, but this is just a cluster f'. Its up to the admins to fix a site problem as far as the sorting goes.

I agree that all the duplicated climbing areas here need to be erased. All the photos and topos can be integrated into the existing route pages. Resurgence area could use a face-lift. I disagree that sorting is low on the priority list. I think it is a very useful feature, especially for visiting climbers.

The reason I said sorting is low, is because the last section of the route authorship is location. Yes, knowing where the route is in reference to other climbs is important, which is already part of the location section, but this will only matter while you are at the cliff. The mobile application for routes is only a brand new feature and I believe not many people are using it yet. What I believe is paramount is the additional beta that helps someone decide whether or not to even get on the route. A description like "boulder problem on lead" and "standard NC rack" like Two-Step's does nothing to help make a critical decision over route safety, if it fits their style, or whether they have the specific gear for the route. Those things for someone like myself visiting or planning a trip to a new area I read more than where the climb is located. Having the guidebook in hand while at the cliff is how location is normally determined. Nothing like getting on a route to realize it would help to have doubles in the TCU size like Instant Karma. Lastly, the routes do not need numbers in their sidebar titles. Check out Sunken Treasure, which is an area that I completely sorted because I posted all the routes. I think Eddy is just new to mp and just didn't know any better. He started adding that content just a few weeks after joining.

Now if we can only get an Admin's attention....

The Resurgence Area now has sub-areas for New Policy, Trundlasaurus, Plane, and Rawlhide. If you see anything missing please post up. I know of at least one route (Overhung and Underrated?) that I was unable to salvage.

I've held off from commenting for long enough.

Tom- it was a 'cluster f' (as you put it) long before I started contributing because you couldn't sort routes without being the area creator. When I first started climbing at Crowders it was hard to find my way around because I didn't know the mountain. Without pictures/topos I was left to guess as to where routes were. Even the guidebooks weren't always helpful. I took it upon myself to make it easier for others, especially beginners. We both know that Crowders IS regarded as a 'beginners area' as well as frowned on for the rock quality. You were correct when you mentioned that I was new to MP so I followed suit on Cobourns descriptions of "standard NC rack" because if you have the NC Select Climbs it describes what a 'standard NC rack' consists of. I gave descriptions like 'boulder problem on lead' because I didn't realize that people needed to be spoon fed beta on how to climb or what gear to use. Isn't that what onsighting is about? Some people like the adventure of having to figure it out for themselves. Just so you know, I did contact SAXFIEND several times to let him know that sorting and updating information was a problem but he never returned my messages.

As for the Resurgence Area, does it really need to be a 'sub-area'? Those walls are located in the 'Main Climbing Areas'. Why not list them in that section instead of having to create a sub catagory. It is not necessary to park somewhere different to get to the 'Resurgence Area' (like 'Hidden Wall') so why create an area within an area?

Also note that some of my content was deleted even though it was contributed before other's contributions. Example- Rocky and Bullwinkle. Which is fine but shouldn't dates have been examined while EDWARD MEDINA was merging the data? While 'organizing' and 'consolidating' content MEDINA also failed to notice that he was deleting information (original onsight tick dates) that are now irretrivable (that's why a lot of my ticks are on FEB. 5th). He mentioned 'a very inelegant solution' in regards to my contributions but I could say the same about his handling of my content. What's worse is that he has my number and could have easily called me to mention that he had gotten adimin. rights and was going to do what he did.

Because of the my 'inelegant solution' things got fixed. I accomplished what I had in mind, which was to get the attention of the admin. Content was not being updated by other individuals (and still isn't).

Now Crowders Main Climbing Areas is one of the most organized areas with plenty of pictures and topos to guide the bulk of the 'beginner' climbers that frequent it. I must apologize because there are still some routes I've yet to climb and update. This is the nearest climbing to Columbia, SC but it is still two hours away.