Chances are if the Christians aren't making eye contact, they're a poor example. I try to make eye contact at least. You can call on me otherwise.

And yes, I'm a lurker, sometimes. If I have nothing important to say, then I don't say it.

However, baseball in a climbing group? Haha, I thought I could escape from baseball here!

And yeah, this weather is depressing. My climbing area's under a foot of snow. Where's global warming when you need it?

Hey Marc:

The "teachings of Joseph Smith" include what's known as the "Word of Wisdom" which is: no tobacco, no alcohol, no hippie lettuce, no acid, no cam hooks on Zion Trade routes, and no GUMBIES!

Kum ba yah Bra!

I don't lurk, but I also don't post every time I log in. As often as that might be then, many 'lukers' probably post more often than me as a percentage of their logins.

So here's some 'noise' for you, since I've been lurking on this subject:
It seems that prophet in a modern sense confuses the English language. Is it a Prophet or Profit? Is the near-homonym a coincidence?

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
- Mohandas Gandhi (October 2, 1869 - January 30, 1948)

So what is the big difference between mormanism and Christianity really, in the big picture? Other than antiquity, I see very little. A good Christian or Jew could have as many wives as they could afford in their day! And furthermore, their priests and Rabbis could (or still can) be married. And both had leaders running their followers around in the desert or found 'tablets' given by God. Shoot, if that's God's M.O., why not do it twice in 5000 years?

I don't find LDS any 'nuttier' than Christians. But yet Christians thed to pick on them. Why? Let's face it, faith is either genetic or socially conditioned, which is why something like 80%(*) of all people carry the banner of the faith of their parents. Why pick on any particular one?

(*) = High 80's by my recollection, but I don't recall the exact % nor all of the qualifiers, but depending on what you call a faith or how finely you sub-divide. Yes, there are many exceptions- I am one of them.

I feel so dirty - fiddlin' with my mouse while viewing others.

I just spent two days climbing a demoralizing little nubbin' out in the Morman's desert. . . snow makes things very freaky.

GeorgeR, you're a fool. . . welcome to your lot. And I'm sure you're twice the man as most of us are (not as good as the women of course).

John Glime. Ooufta. I won't entertain you this time. . . okay, maybe a little.
Funny how tolerance is so one-sided with some people (most people?). Buddha would not be pleased with your instigations.
I wonder: do you spread your ideologies to your students? I have a great friend (really, a great friend) who is an anti-christian/American/republican, and we argue like little 'ol ladies at a bridge match (no, I'm not republican). Point is, he's a teacher, and he does provide his POV when applicable. So, how is one better than the other?
Mormons, in general, TRY to be truly good people. . . and that is commendable. . . I can think of other religions, which I won't mention (Islam. . . shit!), where this doesn't fit.
Mormons didn't allow blacks until 1878? - (Horan) Wow, that's a HUGE step ahead of the southern democrats (you know, those friendly folk who are for the black community). Hell, that's just following the slaying of John Brown (well, 20 years). Sounds like them Mormon's were a step ahead of nearly everyone.
I've known and have worked with some Morman folk, and they've always left a good impression with me.
Now I'm not a practising Anyone, but I do attempt tolerance. . . sometimes.

Read for the winter: "Behold, A Pale Horse". or "Creature from Jekyl Island". Either are a good starting point and should put a happy, healthy glow in your heart for the Christmas. . . oops, I'm sorry. . . the Holiday season.

Bubb, my grandparents were missionaries in the Phillipines, and elsewhere, and they never had the slightest clue as to what a Profit felt like (they only tried to follow their Prophet). In fact, they sacrificed their entire lives for what they felt to be the betterment of others - and from what I understand, in most cases that was the outcome.

McHugh, funny as usual!

Yeah John, the Broncos sure do suck this year. At least now I don't have to bother finding a TV on sunday when I am traveling through Central America in January and February. Anyway, just move up to Park City like me and you won't be a political/religious minority anymore. Its the Mormon demilitarized zone.

Way to take a light hearted smackdown and turn it into a bully pulpit Marc Horan. Everything anyone believes about religion is completely ludicrous to someone outside of that religion, so it is pointless and never leads to any good to throw that stone in an online climbing forum.

Okay Bubb.
Your seemingly anti-christian rhetoric makes its point. My point was in contrast, showing that some christian people do a lot of good, and have truly good intentions (not Profitable/monetary ones).

Again, I feel very, very dirty.
Back to lurking, until next month - ciao!

Cameron,
If your parents as missionaries did more than just preach, then I am sure that by my metrics they did some good.
Personally, my situation does not permit me to go work abroad for my life. Instead of that I choose to pay for those who do, but I happen to support non-religious charities most of the time, because logic would dictate that for every minute spent building churches, worshiping and preaching, one has to spend a minute less building water filtration systems, distributing medicine, and teaching.

I have always had some other internal questions about missionaries though. By the christian dogma, they may have a negative effect. If I correctly recall from my 12 years of cristian schooling, those who have heard the word an did not follow it are damned, while those that never heard the word are not.
Following that Dogma, one can only conclude that 'spreading the good word' necessarily leads to the numbers of the league of the damned, such as myself. If I'd never heard of Jesus, I wouldn't have to face the possibility of eternal damnation for not having been given the gift of faith, right? So it would not have been better for me never to have 'heard the word' at all?

I was in a Hindu temple in Singapore's 'Little India' district with she who was my girlfriend at the time. I observed and pointed out to her a sign bearing the principle tenets of the Hindu faith. The last on the list, perhaps coincidentally or perhaps so as to leave a lasting final impression, read: (to paraphrase)

'Never preach that your religion is superior to that of any other man.'

She nodded and said :
"The Christians could stand to learn that lesson."

Note- as it so happens, she was a Christian.

The religion bashing is boring and pointless.

-Your friendly neighborhood Atheist Jew (that's me).

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