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By Tom Lausch
From Madison WI
Oct 1, 2012
Chips and Salsa
On Saturday my partner almost pulled a block off near Breakfast of Champions. She ended up going to the left of the first crux section. Right behind that giant flake is a chockstone that is the size of a small file cabinet. When she grabbed it, the block started to pull out. She let go and it stopped. Should this be trundled when it is safe to do so? Or is it just best to be left alone.

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By Chris treggE
Administrator
From Madison, WI
Oct 1, 2012
Other fun stuff.
Unless I am missing something, I would trundle if it is that loose. Made damn sure nobody is anywhere below. If the trundler needs to be on belay, it should be a top belay. Rocks bounce and explode in very unpredictable and dangerous ways, as my partner and I learned while doing a "public service trundling" in the past.

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By Ryan Strong
From Golden, CO
Oct 1, 2012
Ryan sending Straight No Chaser at sundown. Photo:...
I am pretty sure I know exactly which block you are talking about. Scared the shit out of me one day aid soloing. I was topping out the steep half of cheetah and decided to do a 2nd pitch starting at the ledge on b.o.c. I built my anchor to that block and it didn't move untill I weight tested my anchor. Scared me enough that I bailed half way up the wall. To be fair to the block , it is in a place where most people won't be climbing. (not on Cheetah nor Breakfast Of Champions.)

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By Tom Lausch
From Madison WI
Oct 1, 2012
Chips and Salsa
alright. as long as no one gives a shit that I trundle it I am fine.

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By Gokul
Oct 2, 2012
At the "summit"
On a related note, there's a potentially dangerous loose block about 6-10 ft off the ground on Chicken Delight. I was hoping to take a better look at it later in the day, but forgot to. If anyone reading plans to be at Pseudo Hawks Nest anytime soon, could you please take a look at it?

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By Dylan Colon
From Eugene, OR
Oct 2, 2012
Me fishing for gear on an onsight of Mung.  Photo ...
The west side of the east rampart has a lot of problems with that kind of stuff, largely because of the shattered stuff that is common at the top of the cliffline. I remember seeing some pretty scary loose blocks (upwards of 30 pounds) near the top of Cracking Up, and I almost got creamed by a baseball-softball sized stone while lowering off of Beginner's Demise. Be careful out there, and yeah, some community trundling is probably the best approach to obvious hazards. As noted above, be DAMN sure that there is no one even near the landing zone.

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By Doug Hemken
Administrator
Oct 2, 2012
On Everleigh Club Crack.  Photo by Burt Lindquist.
That block on Chicken Delight has been like that for decades, and as is common at DL, isn't as hazardous as it first appears.

We shouldn't get in the habit of cleaning and trundling just for the sake of comfort and convenience. We want these rocks to remain unaltered for another 100 years of climbing.

If it is a truly dangerous block that is inevitably going to come down on someone, well then ... but at the Lake you gotta ask yourself: how long have people been climbing over that block, and how likely is it to come out on its own?

And I'll note that I trundled a 10-15 lb block from an obscure climb on the West Bluff, about 3-4 weeks ago.

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By Andy Hansen
From Longmont, Colorado
Oct 2, 2012
Intruder, 5.11+. Zion National Park. Photo: Matt K...
Trundling is a pretty serious thing. I don't think it's wise to start trundling any old loose block without the proper precautions. In Eldo when they trundle they shut down whole sections of the Park... literally nobody is allowed to enter into i.e. Redgarden or West Ridge. And the blocks they are trundling are death blocks on trade routes- not a loose block on a mildly obscure DL route.

I'd say let the blocks be... if it were, say, a death block on Brinton's Crack that might be another story. But regarding BOC... I'd say it's probably OK if it stays. May I eat my words if anything were to happen.

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By Ben Brotelho
From Albany, NY
Oct 2, 2012
Epic free solo with a pack on
To trundle or not to trundle,
That is the question.

Tis nobler to let sleeping blocks slumber
Or to wake them, to watch them tumble?

blah blah blah

Be all my sins remembered

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By jon jugenheimer
From Madison
Oct 2, 2012
hi
I agree with Doug, there are lots of small loose rocks on routes, I don't think we need to worry about a loose rock off route on BOC. I have climbed the first crux of BOC and also around to the left never noticing a large loose block that would be an issue. That area out left has been climbed numerous times as well, without issues. There is also a loose small block on the upper roof if I remember correctly, which is also not a problem except for a cam behind it...So, I would say leave it alone.

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By Tradoholic
Oct 2, 2012
Trundling is the gateway drug to chipping and the downward spiral into sport climbing. Avoid to the death.

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By Morgan Patterson
Administrator
Oct 2, 2012
Topo - Cliffs in Green
Could someone accidentally get off route and find themselves relying on this block and unknowingly pull it off on themselves or their belayer. If so I'd say yank that puppy when no one's around. It's going to fall at some point from erosion anyhow.. better to do it safely then risk having someone kill themselves. How shitty would that be after having this thread? Ya we knowingly did nothing and now so and so is dead.

The logic to leave it seems weak unless there are a lot of loose blocks in that vicinity. I think it's prudent to plan for the worst case scenarios (ie someone off route, epic'ing, pulling the block off) rather then the best case scenario of the I climb here 10 times a week and know all about that block. Planning for the lowest common denominator? Maybe it's been there a long time but the condition of it has changed recently?

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By Doug Hemken
Administrator
Oct 2, 2012
On Everleigh Club Crack.  Photo by Burt Lindquist.
"Could someone get hurt ..." sets the bar too low. "Is someone especially likely to get hurt if they are using the area in the typical way?" is closer to the mark, and is obviously a judgement call.

I'm not opposed to trundling, and I don't know the block Tom's talking about. I think the fact that he's asking around is excellent. Just suggesting things to think about.

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By Woodchuck ATC
Oct 2, 2012
Rock Wars, RRG, 2008
Hate to bring it up, but should someone inform/consult with the DNR about any trundling? They may appreciate our knowledge and ability to do so, but might want to close off a portion of trails and areas well below the target zone for safety concerns. You never know where some mushroom hunter might have wandered off to. Just might be safe to ask them too.

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By Jeff Howard
From Hales Corners WI
Oct 3, 2012
In order to safely trundle. I would treat it much the same way we do when we are shooting photography on public roads or in areas that intersect with the public.

Do it at a very low traffic time and day. To be safe walk the grottos trail and set up radio control with walkie talkies to ensure there is no one in the area. Failure to ensure the safety of the public in a situation like this could result in criminal liability if someone get's hurt.

The likelihood that debris would reach the Grottos trail is small but so presumably is the chance of a climber going off route and actually pulling the block loose.

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By Tradoholic
Oct 3, 2012
Guys, guys, guys, trundling this block isn't worth it. It's off route anyway and frankly loose blocks are part of climbing. I don't think the park would touch this type of activity with a 10ft pole for liability reasons as well. Loose blocks are part of the routes too, V8 and Rock Divot come to mind.

I can't recall the block exactly but it's probably just loose and not likely to come out on top of someone, lots of blocks at DL like that.

Maybe we should topple Cleo's Needle too? That fucker wobbles like Remo.

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By Remo
From Madison, WI
Oct 3, 2012
The credit-card crimp.
How did I get brought into this? Thanks Trad Nanny!

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By DrunkenHaymitch
From Madison, WI
Oct 3, 2012
maybe we should turn Andy Samberg loose in the park. He would surely take cleo's down



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By Tradoholic
Oct 4, 2012
Holy shit that vid is awesome.

Tom, i believe that the moral of the story is to shoot first and ask no questions.

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By Boots Ylectric
From Roselle IL
Oct 4, 2012
Goofin on the Frogs Head Arch before I rap off.
S.P.L.T. Image wrote:
Guys, guys, guys, trundling this block isn't worth it. It's off route anyway and frankly loose blocks are part of climbing. I don't think the park would touch this type of activity with a 10ft pole for liability reasons as well. Loose blocks are part of the routes too, V8 and Rock Divot come to mind. I can't recall the block exactly but it's probably just loose and not likely to come out on top of someone, lots of blocks at DL like that. Maybe we should topple Cleo's Needle too? That fucker wobbles like Remo.


Yeah I say trundle the needle before someone takes it for a ride right into the living room of one of those cabins on the lake.

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By roger fritz from rockford, IL
From Rockford, IL
Oct 5, 2012
Wichita Mountains, Sunshine Wall
No trundling.

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By roger fritz from rockford, IL
From Rockford, IL
Oct 5, 2012
Wichita Mountains, Sunshine Wall
S.P.L.T. Image wrote:
Trundling is the gateway drug to chipping and the downward spiral into sport climbing. Avoid to the death.


Hilarious! No trundling.

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