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By Nick Wilder
Site Landlord
From The Bubble
Jul 6, 2012
Personal Photo

Over at the main branch of Mountain Project Worldwide Headquarters, we've been talking about whether or not we should have some kind of limits on forum posts. We're not sure we need them at all, or if they would work, but there are a few members (no need to name names) who seem to need help controlling themselves.

Some ideas:
- no more than 10 posts/day total
- no more than 3 posts per thread per hour
- no posts within 5 minutes of a prior post in same thread
- probably more...

We thought we'd throw the idea out there for everyone:

Do we need this?

Will it work?

What kind of limits would be effective?

Thanks for your feedback.


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By TuRETZ
From Denver, co
Jul 6, 2012
FLIGHT!

Please do. Or require a home address and we can send out a hit squad to "dispose" of the obnoxious trolls that post every 30 seconds. :) Good call Nick!


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By Brendan N. (grayhghost)
From Salt Lake City, Utah
Jul 6, 2012

Yes, this is a good idea.


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By kirkadirka
From Boulder
Jul 6, 2012
turkey rocks

I think its going in the wrong direction. Its easy to avoid the threads that are polluted if one desires.

If someone wants to spend all day posting nonsense, and someone else can't keep themselves from reading said nonsense, then so be it.

This is the internet and nobody is being forced to be here. If you really feel an individual is not contributing anything positive to the site then excercise your power and axe their account. That would address the problem directly and have fewer unintended impacts to other users.


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By Nick Stayner
From The Magic City
Jul 6, 2012
Nick Stayner near the crux. Ryan Minton photo.

Wholeheartedly support! I feel like all similar decisions administrators have made in the past have worked really well.
If you enjoy flapping your gums unabatedly and dealing with pointless 1,000-post threads, head over to Supertopo!


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By 1Eric Rhicard
Jul 6, 2012
It is a good sized roof. Photo: Jimbo

Note to the Universal and Worldwide Headquarters of Mountain Project I just stay away or ignore them when they get huge due to mindless posting on the forums.

I do think it is a shame when an interesting and useful thread gets polluted and spirals off topic but I don't think I would limit posts.

On the other hand, perhaps folks would choose their words more carefully if they only had five posts per thread.

Hmmm. A lot of people would get a lot more done at work. My god you could get us out of the recession. OH NO. This could change the election results.

Good luck deciding.


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By Austin Baird
From SLC, Utah
Jul 6, 2012
Me scaring years off my mom's life

I understand what you're trying to do but I think that the restrictions would do more harm than good. Sure - you'd stop pointless and nonsensical posts - but you'd also end up stopping valid discussions. For every one "rock and resole" thread, there are ten good threads that don't need these restrictions. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.


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By Pete Spri
Jul 6, 2012

Great idea, love it. I'd leave it up to the admins to determine how many posts.

Just seems like more an more the forum is just... not a good part of mp. And it doesn't have to be like that.


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By Marc H
From Lafayette, CO
Jul 6, 2012
The Cathedral Spires in RMNP, left to right: Stiletto, Sharkstooth, Forbidden Tower, Petit Grepon, The Saber, The Foil, The Moon & The Jackknife.

Nick Wilder wrote:
Do we need this?


It would definitely make the forums better!

Nick wrote:
Will it work? What kind of limits would be effective?


I like the three-posts/thread/hour and waiting-five-minutes-after-each-post restrictions. The only problem that I see is that the edit feature might be abused with those types of limits.

It would also be nice if the community helped out those folks that can't control themselves by not responding to ridiculous threads. so i bootied a locker is only 15 hours old and contains five pages of ridiculousness.

Let's help out the admins with this project people! Don't feed the trolls!


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By Colonel Mustard
From Reno, NV
Jul 6, 2012
Colonel Mustard

Nick Stayner wrote:
Wholeheartedly support! I feel like all similar decisions administrators have made in the past have worked really well. If you enjoy flapping your gums unabatedly and dealing with pointless 1,000-post threads, head over to Supertopo!


You don't go to the Taco often if that's your takeaway. Hearing about the FA on your favorite classic from the person who put it up? The best TRs, period? Unmatched photo threads? ST often represents the best in laissez faire management of a forum, although efforts to self police out of control politard threads sometimes need administrative help. So, yes, that often comes with a bit of campfire gabbing. Of course, every site has its own flavor. Your tastes may change, or not.

Oddly enough given my usual preference for the hands off approach, I sort of like time limiting the number of posts. Some people can't seem to condense their ideas and end up twitter posting. It's much easier to ignore one block of content rather than a shotgun spray of drivel that devolves into one bored RN, I mean, user talking to herself. I mean, himself. I mean...


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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Jul 6, 2012
Bocan

Honestly I don't think that would help. And you would just get people setting up more fake accounts as well.

It's just a handful of people that are being mucking things up anyways. Might be better off maybe doing account suspensions etc. Like it was said...if we don't feed the trolls they will wither up and die.


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By Larry S
Jul 6, 2012
The wife and I road-trippin on the Connie.

How about a variation of the slashdot "Karma" system. Rather than limit their contributions, the low "Karma" score of the post and/or the low score of the user could be used to filter abusive comments/behavior out of the threads?

See Here. I'm thinking a simplified version of that where a user gets a score based on their past history. Everything they post is given their user score to start and can be modded up or down by users, who have limits on how many moderations they can do. The site admins/moderators have unlimited moderation points. If enough people vote a post/comment down, it's score drops, and when it gets below a certain threshhold, it is hidden. If a users posts are continually modded down low enough, their score will drop to a point where what they post is hidden by default.

I realize that that's a couple tons of back-end work for the site and probably won't happen, but i think it's a great solution.


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By CJC
Jul 6, 2012

IP ban for people who just troll incessantly

easy enough to weed out the few that ruin it for everyone else


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By Darren Mabe
From Flagstaff, AZ
Jul 6, 2012
wham bam hand jam. Wrapping up the final moves of Twist of Fate, Oak Creek Canyon. <br /> <br />photo: Blake McCord

why not just delete their profiles? like a bouncer or a game of Survivor.


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By NC Rock Climber
From The Oven, AKA Phoenix
Jul 6, 2012
tanuki

I don't think it is needed and am not a fan of post limits. For the most part, I am a fan of limited moderation like on Supertopo.

I would like to see the deletion of the few troll accounts that come here just to make short "fuck you" posts and do nothing to enrich the community.


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By Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Jul 6, 2012
Bocan

NC Rock Climber wrote:
I don't think it is needed and am not a fan of post limits. For the most part, I am a fan of limited moderation like on Supertopo. I would like to see the deletion of the few troll accounts that come here just to make short "fuck you" posts and do nothing to enrich the community.


I'm sure most people remember the couple kids from the U. of Wyoming a few years back that got banned for trolling, intigating and generally being disruptive.


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By David Appelhans
From Lafayette
Jul 6, 2012
Imaginate

I think this is a good idea. There are many people who visit this site who are kinda overrun by the obnoxious few kids yelling the loudest to themselves.

Ideas:

Make one forum thread where they can chat with eachother and have unlimited posts.

I think 10-15 posts/day total is the best way to implement this because sometimes in the technical threads people are actually posting useful responses several times throughout the hour. If someone were actually posting too much garbage and insults on a thread or many threads, they would pretty quickly run into their daily limit.

Imagine Burt not attacking everyone because he ran out of posts! He would have to be much more selective in who is deserving of his compensating condescension.


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By Leeroy
Jul 6, 2012

Do you guys need some lotion?

"enrich the community"? Now that's funny!


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By Darren Mabe
From Flagstaff, AZ
Jul 6, 2012
wham bam hand jam. Wrapping up the final moves of Twist of Fate, Oak Creek Canyon. <br /> <br />photo: Blake McCord

i forget what the FLAG feature is for. does that do anything?


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By Unassigned User
Jul 6, 2012

Eh not a huge fan of moderation. Like others have said, you know pretty quickly which threads are a waste of your time, so avoid them. I have a very boring job and therefore I get a lot of laughs out of the trolling on some threads. I have even been known to participate in it at times. So no I don't really like the idea but since MP is free I won't complain if you guys do limit posts. Still the best climbing resource out there.


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By NickinCO
From colorado
Jul 6, 2012
after the hard stuff, into cruiser hands.

Nick Wilder wrote:
Over at the main branch of Mountain Project Worldwide Headquarters, we've been talking about whether or not we should have some kind of limits on forum posts. We're not sure we need them at all, or if they would work, but there are a few members (no need to name names) who seem to need help controlling themselves. Some ideas: - no more than 10 posts/day total - no more than 3 posts per thread per hour - no posts within 5 minutes of a prior post in same thread - probably more... We thought we'd throw the idea out there for everyone: Do we need this? Will it work? What kind of limits would be effective? Thanks for your feedback.


I think by doing this you're going to stifle some good conversation. If there are people that are causing a problem they should be removed from the forums. Instead of instituting posting limitations why not make a 3 strike policy? Start with a 30 day ban, then a 60 day, then permanent. I don't see how enforcing this would be too difficult, the people that need to be removed are pretty obvious.


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By Colonel Mustard
From Reno, NV
Jul 6, 2012
Colonel Mustard

Darren Mabe wrote:
i forget what the FLAG feature is for. does that do anything?


Not that I've seen. Oops. Outed myself as a passive aggresive whiner there.


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By M Sprague
Administrator
From New England
Jul 6, 2012
Lichen head. Me, with my usual weatherbeaten, lichen covered look from scrubbing a new route.

Nick Mardi wrote:
I think by doing this you're going to stifle some good conversation. If there are people that are causing a problem they should be removed from the forums. Instead of instituting posting limitations why not make a 3 strike policy? Start with a 30 day ban, then a 60 day, then permanent. I don't see how enforcing this would be too difficult, the people that need to be removed are pretty obvious.

Seriously, how many good postings would we lose with a 10 per day limit. Not many I would think. I don't think a reasonable limit would stifle any good conversation, and certainly not more than being swamped with nonsense. I think that keeps many from bothering to join in.

I agree, unfortunately, the ban hammer needs to be used more often.


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By Jeremy Hand
Jul 6, 2012
slopey

I like the concept but think you would be hindering the community as well... I throw in some trollish remarks everyonce in awhile but I also like interesting debate and, occasionally, I try to be helpful.


What happens when someone new joins or someone is looking for some serious information and the someone that can be of some assistance has already reached their daily limit? You haven't only hampered the members ability to respond to a person in need but you may also drive away the OP by tricking him/her into thinking that their thread wasn't worthwhile or the community just doesn't give a shit.

So, while you will effectively remove the majority of trolling,, and what some people see as pointless bickering, you will also be hampering the entire forum. As others have said, this is the internet. You are not forced to read every post in every thread every day. You can decide to just read the OP and respond to it. You, the user behind the keyboard, has complete control of everything you see and contribute to. If I see a thread titled, Pixie dust chalk recipe that lights up holds and it has 28 pages worth of commentary I will make the conscious decision to ignore that thread. To police the entire community because some people are enticed into reading something which results in them getting butt hurt is not reputable, respectable, or fair.

On the other hand - BANNING particular members over repeated disrespectful/ignorant/disgusting remarks is completely fair, as they would be proving their complete disregard for Rule #1 over a long period of time. But only ban once they've been warned 2 or 3 times and don't allow all mods have this power... only a small handful of people (otherwise it WILL be abused).

Or everyone can stfu and get over it. Damn nancies!


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By NickinCO
From colorado
Jul 6, 2012
after the hard stuff, into cruiser hands.

M Sprague wrote:
Seriously, how many good postings would we lose with a 10 per day limit. Not many I would think. I don't think a reasonable limit would stifle any good conversation, and certainly not more than being swamped with nonsense. I think that keeps many from bothering to join in. I agree, unfortunately, the ban hammer needs to be used more often.


You're probably right, I think putting a post limit on the forums though is like putting a band-aid on a cut that isn't going to go heal. Certain people will feel like they're being over-moderated and may be likely to leave (or at least whine about it), and others may limit contributions which might not necessarily be a bad thing.

Would the post limit only be applied to the forums or on route comments also?

I still think it would be easier to just remove the bad apples. An IP ban for 30 days and then a permanent boot.

I disagree without everyone who says "it's just the internet" too. The administrators have put a lot of hardwork into this site and there's no reason they should have to tolerate the bs. Contrary to what a lot of people want to think, freedom of speech isn't free here, it's a dictatorship run by the creators, that's the way it should be... they put in all the work and pay the bills unless everyone here but me is paying for bandwidth?


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By David Appelhans
From Lafayette
Jul 6, 2012
Imaginate

I like the concept but think you would be hindering the community as well... I throw in some trollish remarks everyonce in awhile but I also like interesting debate and, occasionally, I try to be helpful.


What happens when someone new joins or someone is looking for some serious information and the someone that can be of some assistance has already reached their daily limit? You haven't only hampered the members ability to respond to a person in need but you may also drive away the OP by tricking him/her into thinking that their thread wasn't worthwhile or the community just doesn't give a shit.

It sounds like you don't troll enough that you would be using up 10 or 15 posts a day. When was the last time elanor had something useful to contribute? I doubt Burt will ever be on the verge of saying something helpful and then go "shoot, I'm out of my 10 posts for the day."


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