Life Insurance and Climbing

Does anybody have any experience with term life insurance...reasonable rate that covers climbing? I'm being quoted $2-2.50 per $1000 of benefit, and some say that only covers up to YDS 5.1, which excludes most of what I do anyway.

Unfortunately your experience is pretty typical. For what it's worth here are some old threads on the topic.

mountainproject.com/v/life-…
mountainproject.com/v/climb…
mountainproject.com/v/climb…

The American Alpine Club has a referral program with a firm of insurance brokers. Maybe you could give them a try. See americanalpineclub.org/p/in… and scroll down to "climbing friendy life insurance".

In my own case I was able to get coverage of 5 x salary at standard rates through my employer's group life plan. There was a medical exam but they didn't ask any questions about hazardous sports.

If you have any luck with a term policy, please follow up and let us know. I ended up giving up (even on the AAC referred agent) and went with a couple of group policies that covered most of what I wanted.

I have Aflac as supplemental $ for 'what ifs' and b/c its cheap, but they specifically exclude "mountaineering with ropes".

I have instructed my partners to remove my gear and claim that I was soloing or "hiking" if I get seriously injured.

Matt N wrote:I have Aflac as supplemental $ for 'what ifs' and b/c its cheap, but they specifically exclude "mountaineering with ropes". I have instructed my partners to remove my gear and claim that I was soloing or "hiking" if I get seriously injured.

Sounds like a great plan,,,and works if you are a boulderer too. Or if you die in a freak storm, then nature takes the blame, not your gear or choice of adventure.

My coverage is through NW Mutual as well. I got $1 m. of 20 yr. term since I'm the sole breadwinner. I had to really dumb down my application, which the agent then had to massage but it worked. Remember, it's what you do do on a regular basis, not what you can do.

Ironically, when I found myself in the position of needing to consider life insurance, my life took such a radical step away from climbing that the representations ended up being pretty accurate. It's also important to remember that the policy does not preclude you from climbing more, doing more risky things, taking up scuba or sky diving in the future. Though if you do something somewhat contrary to what you reported and off yourself within 3 years of issuing the policy, they might scrutinize the coverage.

Something else to consider is accidental death insurance. I have a couple of these, that cost about $45-$50 per year each, and provide $100,000 coverage each. There are no restrictions regarding climbing in the policies that I have.

I have term life through Allstate. It is specifically more expensive when you indicate your engage in rock/ice climbing (or race car driving or sky diving since these four activities are grouped together under the clauses). I honestly can't remember what I pay since it is lumped with homeowners and car. I asked the agent what happens if I say I don't engage in these activities then die climbing. I was told that first there would be no payout for my wife and daughter and they would be held liable for insurance fraud if a payout was made and then the "postmortem activity autopsy" was done and it was determined climbing was a regular activity I engaged in. Essentially they speak with friends, neighbors, co-workers and determine if you are a climber in order to ensure they don't have to pay out to someone who was a higher risk than they let on.

I have a Term 30 through State Farm and I disclosed my climbing. They specifically asked me whether I'm Class 1 through 5 and I said Class 5. Also, they wanted to know about all my climbing "trips" which is hard to do cause I'm mainly a weekend climber and I don't go on big "trips" which I explained. I truthfully answered any questions they had and I still managed to get the preferred rating.

super ignorant question: I have life insurance through my work (for free) and never really considered that climbing wouldn't be covered. Do most group plans not cover climbing or is it just individual plans that you all are searching out? Totally completely uninformed and honestly never really thought about it.

Josh Brown wrote:they would be held liable for insurance fraud if a payout was made and then the "postmortem activity autopsy" was done and it was determined climbing was a regular activity I engaged in.

I call BS on that one. Unless your family conspired to intentionally defraud your insurance company, I dont see how they could be charged with anything. They could easily argue that at the time you bought the insurance policy you did not climb, but later you started, or one of a million other things. It happens all of the time. Someone gets a non-smoker policy, sometime later they start smoking, and then they die. Did they "defraud" the insurance company? No. This is not a criminal issue, it's a contract issue.

Also, how is an autopsy going to determine if you rock climb on a regular basis or not? Sounds like the agent was feeding you crap he was making up as he went along.

Rob D. wrote:super ignorant question: I have life insurance through my work (for free) and never really considered that climbing wouldn't be covered. Do most group plans not cover climbing or is it just individual plans that you all are searching out? Totally completely uninformed and honestly never really thought about it.

No it doesn't matter for group life insurance policies. Similar to group health where they don't go into the same level of detail on individuals as with personal policies.

My brother owns a insurance firm and this topic came up(although it was regarding diving moreso and making sure we were"above" 60' in the WC)... if you've had your policy in place for longer than two years, no matter what they can't deny ...even for suicide or skydiving!

Bryan Manning wrote: no matter what they can't deny ...even for suicide or skydiving!

It all depends on the policy. You have to read the policy. I am sure there have been plenty of people who had a policy for 30 years, and when the time came up the payout got denied for whatever reason. It probably happens hourly.

My advice: paper is the law. It does not matter what we say, it does not matter what your policy underwriter says, it does not even matter what the insurer says. The only thing that is legally binding in court is what your policy says. If you have to go bat based on what your agent said, the judge is going to look at the policy and see what that says. If it's not in writing, it never happened as we like to say in the military.

Not true^ according to my brother(again owns a very large ins. firm in vegas) they like you to believe that, but if you don't specify that your climbing and you've had your policy in place for 2 yrs or more they can not deny the claim. Your human you can find new hobbies that you weren't "into" at time of policy registration/activation. Climbing may just be that hobby or scuba or skydive or my new personal fav ...ski mountaineering!

So let me address a couple of items that I read in the thread. It is important to understand that insurance is regulated by the state and not the federal government. This means that each state establishes the guidelines that insurers must agree to follow of they wish to offer their products to the residents of that state. So, while it is generally true that there is typically a 2 year incontestability clause included in insurance policies, it may vary from state to state. In broad terms, states follow NAIC guidlines, however there are substantial variances when digging into various forms of insurance.

Specific to life insurance, the incontestability clause is designed to protect the insured against the insurance company denying a claim after a specified period of time (explained in the incontestability section of the policy). There are, however, some exclusions to this and one could feasibly argue that a blatant attempt to withhold rock climbing/mountaineering, when specifically asked during the application process, may fall outside of the parameters of contestability. The rationale is, unlike medical conditions, where insurance companies can request information from the MIB (medical information bureau) and order APSs (attending physicians statements), thus allowing them to perform due diligence if they choose, avocations are not recorded or documented by a professional, and insurers would have no way of finding out, unless the individual is "caught in the act."

This being said, the argument then becomes, does the insurer provide coverage at a higher premium and would they have issued the policy? If the answer is yes, then the courts may award some sort of claim to the insurer while requiring the insurer to pay the claim. So if the face amount is $1,000,000 and the premiums would have been double what was actually paid, then they would probably deduct this and legal fees from the insurance benefit. If, on the other hand, the insurer would not have issued the policy, the argument can go a completely different direction and the award to the insured's family may just be the premiums that were paid in.

In terms of group policies, again these are underwritten by spreading the risk across a specific group. Avocations may be treated differently than health however, so I would recommend that one request a copy of the master policy to see what the exclusions are, rather than assuming that you are covered.

Honesty is always the best policy, and there is never an excuse for withholding this information. In the event that an agent assists an applicant in concealing material facts during the application process, then there may be both civil and criminal actions brought against the agent. However, there typically would not be a criminal offense on the part of the insured. Frankly, the only way the insurer would find out is if the insured died while engaged in the hazardous activity and, at that point, who cares if there are criminal charges, the insured is no longer around to fact the charges.

A last piece of advice....if you pick up a new avocation, such as rock climbing, it may be a good idea to inform your insurance company and make sure that you are covered. This will certainly make life easier for your family if the unfortunate does occur.