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Last Chance Canyon

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Last Chance Canyon 


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Location: 32.2336, -104.7537 View Map  Incorrect?
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Administrators: Aaron Hobson, Jason Halladay, Anthony Stout, LeeAB, Marta Reece, Kristine Hoffman
Submitted By: Olf Ensive on Feb 15, 2007
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Climbing is currently allowed in Last Chance Canyon. Continued access is everyones responsibility. MORE INFO >>>

Description 

Last Chance Canyon is home to some of the best sport climbing in New Mexico. The limestone in the canyon is of variable quality, but the bulk of the existing routes are on top-shelf stone that would rival that of famous European crags. There are two distinct styles of climbs: technical, near vertical faces on thin edges and excellent pockets, and steep jug-hauls up enormous sweeping roofs of layered shelfs. The canyon currently hosts ~120 bolted routes, ranging in difficulty from 5.4 to 5.13+. There is potential for many more excellent lines, but a bolting ban has been imposed by Lincoln National Forest (see access note for more information).

There are around 15 distinct crags in the canyon, facing all directions. In the winter, sun-seekers can climb at the Violince Wall, Tornado Alley, or the Breakfast Wall in the morning. Crags that get afternoon sun are The Sunporch, Santa Fe Wall, Tombstone Wall, The Beer Garden, and Tsunami Wall. In the warmer months head straight to the Mad Cow Wall, and Hueco Cave, two of the canyon's best cliffs.

Free camping is available on Lincoln National Forest adjacent to the parking area. A few trees offer shelter a few yards east of the parking lot. The altitude at the campground & parking lot is ~6,000 feet, so it will be significantly cooler than the temps in Carlsbad. The canyon bed is about 1,000 feet lower. In times of heavy rains, some crag bases will be submerged, and the access road can get extremely muddy.


Getting There 

From US 285, ~8 miles N of Carlsbad, head West on Highway 137 to Queen(~38 miles). On the far end of Queen, just after Mile Marker 18, turn right onto Forest Road 525 (signed). There are numerous spur roads, just follow the main track. You will encounter 2 cattle guards and two gates. After ~3 miles, make a hard left onto 525A, and continue 1 more mile to the parking lot overlooking the canyon, passing an old shack.

The camping area is on the right side of the road, 100 yds before the parking lot.

The GPS coordinates are to the parking area.


87 Total Routes


['4 Stars',8],['3 Stars',44],['2 Stars',26],['1 Star',7],['Bomb',0]
['<=5.6',2],['5.7',4],['5.8',2],['5.9',5],['5.10',19],['5.11',21],['5.12',24],['5.13',10],['>=5.14',0],['',0],['<=V1',0],['V2-3',0],['V4-5',0],['V6-7',0],['V8-9',0],['V10-11',0],['V12-13',0],['>=V14',0]

The Classics

Mountain Project's determination of some of the classic, most popular, highest rated routes for Last Chance Canyon:
Frosted Flakes   5.7 5a 15 V+ 13 MVS 4b     Sport   Breakfast Wall
Riot   5.8 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c     Sport, 60'   Violince Wall
Revenge of the Little Fingers   5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a     Sport   Tornado Alley
Hot Tamale   5.10- 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a     Sport, 1 pitch, 70'   Solstice Cave
Terror in the Trailerpark   5.10d 6b+ 21 VII+ 21 E3 5b     Sport, 50'   Tornado Alley
Fiddler on the Roof   5.11a 6c 22 VII+ 22 E3 5c     Sport, 90'   Violince Wall
Gustnado   5.11a 6c 22 VII+ 22 E3 5c     Sport, 55'   Tornado Alley
Cutter   5.11c 6c+ 24 VIII- 24 E4 6a     Sport, 60'   Mad Cow Wall
Fujimata   5.12a 7a+ 25 VIII+ 25 E5 6a     Sport, 60'   Tornado Alley
3 Feet From An Orgy - a.k.a. Fossil Fling   5.12a 7a+ 25 VIII+ 25 E5 6a     Sport, 60'   Fossil Wall
Eternal Sunshine   5.12a 7a+ 25 VIII+ 25 E5 6a     Sport, 50'   Solstice Cave
West Wasn't Won on Salad   5.12a 7a+ 25 VIII+ 25 E5 6a     Sport, 60'   Mad Cow Wall
Mad Cow   5.12b 7b 26 VIII+ 26 E5 6b     Sport, 60'   Mad Cow Wall
Swept Away   5.12b 7b 26 VIII+ 26 E5 6b     Sport, 55'   Tornado Alley
Rabid Dave   5.12b 7b 26 VIII+ 26 E5 6b     Sport   Mad Cow Wall
Flying Cows   5.12b 7b 26 VIII+ 26 E5 6b     Sport, 75'   Tornado Alley
Ein Von Frei "Santa Fe"   5.12c 7b+ 27 IX- 27 E6 6b     Sport, 65'   Santa Fe Wall
Rawhide   5.12c 7b+ 27 IX- 27 E6 6b     Sport, 60'   Mad Cow Wall
Total Eclipse   5.12d 7c 28 IX 28 E6 6b PG13     Sport, 1 pitch, 60'   Solstice Cave
Couch Potato   5.12d 7c 28 IX 28 E6 6b     Sport, 1 pitch, 80'   Hueco Cave
Browse More Classics in Last Chance Canyon

Featured Route For Last Chance Canyon
Daniel nears the top <br />Frosted Flakes (5.7)

Frosted Flakes 5.7 5a 15 V+ 13 MVS 4b  NM : New Mexico, other Southern ... : ... : Breakfast Wall
Easy moves up to the ledge with lots of foot hand hand matches and mantles. Good pockets past two more bolts to reach a corner where Follow the big flakes with excellent footholds on the opposing positioning the body left of the crack makes laying back the flakes a breeze. The 'X'ed rock is gone now, the crack go clean and smooth all the way to the easy clip at the chains. My favorite easy warmup. A classic 5.7, easy 4-star!...[more]   Browse More Classics in NM

Photos of Last Chance Canyon Slideshow Add Photo
A wild, beautiful sunset over Last Chance Canyon. May 26, 2013.
A wild, beautiful sunset over Last Chance Canyon. ...
Just some great STONE!! <br />Last Chance Canyon
Just some great STONE!!
Last Chance Canyon
FR 525 Last Chance Canyon CLOSED!
BETA PHOTO: FR 525 Last Chance Canyon CLOSED!
Overview of the major cliffband on the South side of Last Chance Canyon.  The location of the Hermit's Cave is an educated guess.  This photo was taken from the base of "Lips & Assholes".
Overview of the major cliffband on the South side ...
Beta for the "Tsunami Wall".
Beta for the "Tsunami Wall".
FR 525, 2nd cattle guard is locked!  Last Chance Canyon CLOSED!
BETA PHOTO: FR 525, 2nd cattle guard is locked! Last Chance C...
One of the hazards of the campground.  This guy was not shy at all, and didn't seem too concerned about us.  We discovered him tail-deep in our food bin.  Fortunately we didn't get sprayed.
One of the hazards of the campground. This guy wa...
So much route potential, but.... See access note. Hopefully the bolting ban and climbing restriction in Solstice Cave will eventually lift.
So much route potential, but.... See access note. ...
Panoramic photo of Last Chance Canyon. December 2012.
Panoramic photo of Last Chance Canyon. December 20...
Comments on Last Chance Canyon Add Comment
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Comments displayed oldest to newestSkip Ahead to the Most Recent Dated Mar 26, 2014
By Bill Ballace
From: Pullman,WA
Jun 29, 2006

Last Chance Chance Canyon near Queens and Siting Bull falls is incredible. An area of highly pocketed, limestone caves. Not one cave but twenty or thirty. It just needs to be drilled up. Maybe someone wants to add directions to the site.

By WSnyder
Jul 17, 2006

The word on Last Chance as I have been told is that the locals are trying to keep the location secret until they can drill up the routes themselves. I have also heard some outsiders have been doing some drilling recently. Enough people already know how to get there so it probably will not be long before it's public knowledge again. I'm just waiting for some cooler temps to make a visit myself (not to drill just to climb).

By DisturbingThePeace
From: Albuquerque, NM
Nov 30, 2006

Last Chance isn't in the new guide, so the crowds won't be arriving yet. Also when I was there in early October there was a ranger from the forest service investigating to see if there were bolted lines near archeological sites, which fortunatly I don't think there are. So the main access issues are the locals trying to keep it a secret. Don't worry I don't ever see it becoming super popular.

By DisturbingThePeace
From: Albuquerque, NM
Dec 26, 2006

I'll agree with the above. It surprises me that people think this will become a destination crag, when there are all the issues listed above. Also even the popular areas in NM aren't crowded like areas in CO. That said I won't be posting any directions.

Note the restrictions posted in the latest access fund news letter.


Last Chance Canyon, NM (11/14/2006)
By Jason Fields, Regional Coordinator
The US Forest Service is currently developing a recreation management plan for Last Chance Canyon and as such has requested that all climbing route development be halted until they have time to draft the plan. The restrictions include no new bolting and no new trails or campsites. They also request that while you are in the canyon you refrain from entering “the Hermit's Cave” and “Solstice Cave” because of the possible archaeological resources located within.

Other than the above mentioned restrictions all other climbing remains open.

Please direct any questions to Jason Fields at v15wannabe@yahoo.com

By Bill Ballace
From: Pullman,WA
Feb 14, 2007

If you wanted to keep LCC on the "DL" then why did you post pictures of couch potato on rockclimbing.com? As for the "access issues" the camping is in a designated firewood cutting area. The locals in Queens are super friendly and would probably like the area become more popular because they run a restaurant in a very remote part of NM. This stated, unless the "locals" from Texas can provide some concrete evidence of a real access issue, then I think LCC should be added. It will never become a destination area, not because of the "brutal hike" (which does not exist), nor because the majority of the climbs are 12+ (because they aren't), but because it is in the middle of nowhere. It just won't ever become a circus.

By Monomaniac
Administrator
From: Morrison, CO
Feb 21, 2007

I agree with Bill. The only issue that will affect LCC's popularity is its location in the middle of nowhere. Its 3 hours or more in all directions to a population center, which explains why the "locals" are Texans. Anyone willing to drive 5 hours will walk 15 minutes to get into the canyon.

I find it interesting that the locals are completely disregarding the request to avoid the Solstice Cave. Apparently the access issue is a direct result of the route and trail development in the Solstice Cave. The Cave has at least 50 fixed chain quickdraws, which is super convenient, but you have to wonder how that sort of thing is viewed by a land manager. It also appears to have several obviously chipped holds, visible from the ground.

Personally, I would be all for posting beta on this site, if I thought it would not affect access. Its hard to tell at this point how more crowds would affect the access situation. I'm curious what others think. Generally I think more crowds are a good thing in NM, since so few people around here ever climb routes, and traffic helps to keep routes clean, maintain trails, etc. Crowds also might show the land managers that this area is important to a lot of recreational users, not just a few unemployed transient climber dirtbags. I also detest the elitism that surrounds the 'locals only' ethic. If you want to argue that we need to keep a low profile to ensure continued access, then ALL climbers, locals included, should avoid the area. On the other hand, it sounds like all the folks who are interested already have all the beta, so maybe there is no point to adding the crag here.

I'm curious, are there folks out there that don't have beta, and would like to see the crag on this site?

By Nathan Reynolds
Mar 6, 2007

No decision was made to post that map. There are access issues because the florestas are flexing their muscles and if we aren't careful, we'll loose access altogether. Please be respectful and don't fuck things up.

By Olf Ensive
Mar 14, 2007

I challenge the locals to present a real access issue. It seems that the Access Fund has this one under control.
-----
www.accessfund.org/regions/news/NM
New Mexico Breaking News
Last Chance Canyon, NM (11/14/2006)
By Jason Fields, Regional Coordinator
The US Forest Service is currently developing a recreation management plan for Last Chance Canyon and as such has requested that all climbing route development be halted until they have time to draft the plan. The restrictions include no new bolting and no new trails or campsites. They also request that while you are in the canyon you refrain from entering “the Hermit's Cave” and “Solstice Cave” because of the possible archaeological resources located within.

Other than the above mentioned restrictions all other climbing remains open.

Please direct any questions to Jason Fields at v15wannabe@yahoo.com
-----

As long as climbers can stay out of the Solistice cave and the Hermits cave and they don't make any new routes, trails, or campsites, there is no problem. The same old "Foresters are flexing muscles and access will be taken away," just does not reflect the reality of the situation. Furthermore, the locals are not staying away is if their use of the canyon does not affect access but someone from Colorado or California will get the place shut down.

If you want directions and the route info I was going to post just email me and I'll be happy to provide it until the site managers figure this out.

By Smolakian
From: Golden, CO
Mar 14, 2007

I think that if Access is really the issue, then it should be public knowledge for that fact alone. It would benefit the respectful and ethical development of the crag, if the beta was public. Climbers are gonna learn more about the area including which areas are sensitive better from this site than from their friends.

Keeping crag locations, that are on public property, secret does nothing for the climbing community. It seems that the spirit of this site is not just for directions and beta but to also inform and educate. People WILL find out about this crag. LCC would be better off if those potential visitors knew what was at stake and how to act when they climb there.

Citing "possibly sometime in the future" access issues as a reason to keep a crag secret doesn't make sense.

By Dave Meyers
From: Golden, CO
Mar 14, 2007

Don't be fooled by Craig Childre.
"This place is nice, but it is no destination crag. The road sucks, the approach sucks, and very few would go to the trouble to actually take a trip there. Sitting Bull is a far better choice if you want some of the sweet Limestone."
-Road was traveled by a Honda accord
-approach was a casual 30 min
-limestone is better than Sh--ting bull falls.
However, I do agree with the removal of directions from the site. Let's not ruin the access to this great climbing resource with herds of people. Just because the access fund addresses this issue does not mean they are taking care of it. Just look how they dropped the ball on sphinx rock and squat rock in the Splatte. Most climbers are friendly people just ask around about this place, it's really not a secret, especially when you see how many cars are parked @ the trailhead.

By J Fields
Mar 19, 2007

Last Chance Canyon is not closed. But access is tenuous right now as the Forest Service is developing a recreational management plan for the area. The Access Fund is aware of what is happening but you must remember that 10 paid staff can NOT take care of every climbing site in the US. Simply impossible. What the Access Fund can do is provide legal support and consult, reference materials and examples of working recreational use plans in other areas. The Access Fund works in support of the local climbing community. If the locals do not take personal ownership of their local crags our climbing resources will continue to be endangered.

That being said. The official stance of the Access Fund is to respect the requests of the Forest Service and to be as positive and polite to any rangers you may encounter. We would like the restrictions to be temporary and continue to work with the forest service to help develop the management plan. The goal is to make our voice heard without making enemies.

If you would like to be added to an informational mailing list concerning LCC developments please email me at v15wannabe at yahoo dot com

Cheers,
Jason Fields
Access Fund-Regional Coordinator (West Texas and Eastern New Mexico)

By Anthony Stout
Administrator
From: Albuquerque, NM
Mar 30, 2007

Thanks to all who have submitted comments with their thoughts on Last Chance Canyon.

It seems that the decision whether to post or not to post directions to the area on this site should be based on access concerns alone. Nobody wishes for access to be revoked to the area. Some have expressed that posting the area will increase visibility, and that more climbers in the area may make the forest service more receptive to including climbing within their management plan. Others have feared that increased numbers of climbers will do just the opposite and force closure.

From what I have learned over the past few weeks from users and Jason Fields of the Access Fund, it seems the latter is more likely to be true.

Mr. Fields believes that we are “at a critical junction with LCC, and that maintaining an unassuming honest discussion will help to keep the area open”. When the Forest Service learned that there were many more routes in the canyon than originally believed, they felt they needed to restrict use of the area until they could better understand the number of users and their impact on the area.

Furthermore, he noted that “we need to prepare the area and the forest service for an increase in visitation. As of now the area is simply not prepared to handle any more traffic than it currently receives….. The ecological impact would be very heavy and would reflect poorly on the climbing community.”

It seems that at least for the time being, it is wise to keep maps and directions off the web until the above issues are resolved.

For everyone’s sake, let’s hope the forest service gets these issues resolved soon. Also, climbers can help the situation by being respectful to encountered rangers, and adhering to the Forest Service’s requests to not enter the Hermits Cave or the Solstice Cave (see access note on MP).

Also, in my opinion, it would not hurt to send in your supportive contribution to the Access Fund for their support in assisting us with continued access to this crag.

Again, thanks to those who commented. I look forward to seeing some of you out climbing!

Tony

By Bill Ballace
From: Pullman,WA
Nov 21, 2007

Isn't the Solstice Cave supposed to be "off limits"? I guess that it is ok for you guys to do whatever you want as long as you have controll over who has the directions. Anyone who wants the beta for this crag can email me directly.

By Monomaniac
Administrator
From: Morrison, CO
Nov 22, 2007

I vote for allowing LCC beta. The folks in favor of secrecy are obviously still climbing there, and still climbing in areas that are supposedly off-limits (Solstice Cave).

PS: KW is a nice guy, but he's probably the one (or one of the ones)doing the chipping at LCC. His route "Straight Into Frantic Oblivion" in the Solstice Cave has a drilled pocket visible from the ground, and "Flamer" (also his route) has a drilled crimp at the first crux.

I don't want to be a jerk, but if we don't "out" the chippers, they'll keep on doing it. In this era, chipping at a crag with known access concerns is just disgusting.

By AccessFund HQ
Nov 27, 2007

Although it was quite sometime ago, I would like to address Dave Myers point of Access Fund dropping the ball.
He suggests that Sphinx Rock (et al.) is analogous to the LCC situation.
With most respect, they are not similar. Sphinx Rock access is on private land. Period. LCC is public. Therefore the Access Fund did not "drop the ball"; the land owner does not want climbers on hsr property. end of story.

A more analogous situation in Choas Canyon stashed pads and the RMNP service. A committed core of locals who believe their gem should stay "off the radar", and that park service does not know better. therefore if outsiders stay away, everthing will be just fine.

The pad situation only started clearing up when climbers worked WITH the park service, and looked after the place (trash, no stashed pads etc.). Jason is right on.

Unfortunately for LCC locals, Lubbock & Alb, NM mostly (4 & 5 hours away respectively), the park service knows about climbing there. So play by their requests (easy enough), let th CMP pan out, be friendly with park rangers and pick up after yourself.
It will all get sorted out sooner or later.

By Monomaniac
Administrator
From: Morrison, CO
Jan 17, 2008

Craig, you are correct, I did not see him chip the route.

Craig said:
"I do know a few well respected long-time climbers of the area who comfortize holds as they develop on the sharp limestone"

...are you saying John Gogas (and/or his crew) chipped the routes at Solstice? Are these the guys whose whishes we are to respect to 'keep it on the DL' as you say?? The holds I saw (and felt) were not "comfortized", they were drilled in blank rock.

Craig said:
"This isn't broken so why complicate things by further revelation or publication, at least until the time is appropriate?"

When is the appropriate time? Once your boys have chipped all the routes down to 13b so that they get the FFAs? You're right, the climbing community has no reason to interfere with that!

By DisturbingThePeace
From: Albuquerque, NM
Jan 17, 2008

Craig Childre wrote "Solstice cave is closed, and has been respected. Notice Kevin's ascent date of Malfunction Junction is March 11 2007, so please excuse yourself, as you assert things which just are not so. Developement ban has been honored. "

Craig, The access fund has requested that climbers avoid the Solstice cave since 11/14/2006.

Last Chance Canyon, NM (11/14/2006)
By Jason Fields, Regional Coordinator
The US Forest Service is currently developing a recreation management plan for Last Chance Canyon and as such has requested that all climbing route development be halted until they have time to draft the plan. The restrictions include no new bolting and no new trails or campsites. They also request that while you are in the canyon you refrain from entering “the Hermit's Cave” and “Solstice Cave” because of the possible archaeological resources located within.

Other than the above mentioned restrictions all other climbing remains open.

By Monomaniac
Administrator
From: Morrison, CO
Jan 22, 2008

Yo, feel free to enhance any of my photo topos (add route names, etc and re-post to MP.com).

By Anthony Stout
Administrator
From: Albuquerque, NM
Jan 22, 2008

After careful consideration and discussions with Access Fund representatives and members of the climbing community, posting Last Chance Canyon beta will now be allowed on Mountain Project. However, when climbing at Last Chance Canyon we must be considerate of the Forest Services’ current ban on bolting new routes, climbing, and trespassing within the Solstice and Hermit Caves. The concerns of the Forest Service include archeological resources and rare or endangered plant species in the area. Please, tread lightly, and approach the area with a sense of respect.

Access Fund representatives are currently working with the Forest Service in creating a Climbing Management Plan for the area. We can assist them in this process by acting responsibly as a user group. As a community of climbers, it is important that visiting and local climbers share the responsibility in conducting themselves in a way that reflects positively on our larger community. Please respect the requests and policies of the Forest Service in order to preserve our access to this area.

Thank You,

Tony

By DisturbingThePeace
From: Albuquerque, NM
Jan 29, 2008

Thanks mono for the great topos, next time I should be able to find the routes I want to get on.

In general I thought the 5.10's were hard for the grade, 5.11's accurate, and the 5.12's were soft compared with the original "line" topos.

By Monomaniac
Administrator
From: Morrison, CO
Jan 30, 2008

DTP, I agree that the easier routes were sandbagged and the harder routes were soft (with the exception of Black Plague; solid at 13b, IMO).

By Monomaniac
Administrator
From: Morrison, CO
Feb 25, 2008

If you climb 5.13, this is the best sport climbing in NM.

By Craig Childre
From: Lubbock, Texas
Mar 5, 2008

Not that I would know, but Black Plague was thought to be 13a by the Midland crew, that is 2nd hand info though.

IMO - grading for routes that are well below you is less precise than grading at or near you limit. So the high 12 climbers opinion of 9's and 10's can vary dramatically, to them it's 5.FUN!

By tkp
Mar 18, 2008

Thanks Craig

By Tom Addison
Feb 28, 2011

anyone know what the driving time is from El Paso airport to Last Chance? I see it's 193 miles if you take the 62/180 east and then northeast almost all the way to Carlsbad, and then cut west on County Road 408/Dark Canyon Road, and then south on 137/Queen Highway. Is that the best way to go? seems like a long way out of the way, but perhaps it is the fastest route.
I'm planning a trip in April, and would appreciate any route/time beta. Many thanks

By RyanandDes
Mar 12, 2011

does anyone know if the road to Last Chance has gotten any better over the last couple of years? Due to gas prices I would really like to take my Scion xd out there, do you think this is possible?

By Craig Childre
From: Lubbock, Texas
Mar 15, 2011

Road Report: The road is in pretty good shape. The holes are dry and the section that get washed out isn't too bad. Low clearance cars will still make it, a guy brought in his Saturn last season. Just take it slow and you will be fine.

By Joshua1979
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Nov 18, 2011

We are road tripping in NM next week and were considering hitting sitting bull and last chance cyn. Looks like sitting bull is closed due to fire damage. Same for last chance? The forest service website says last chance cyn trail is closed...Does that mean all climbing areas too? Thanks

By DisturbingThePeace
From: Albuquerque, NM
Nov 18, 2011

Yes, Last Chance and Sitting Bull are both closed until re-opened by the forest service. Closure will probably last until well into 2012 or 2013.

By texasclimber22
Mar 28, 2012

Anyone know the climbing status of Last Chance Canyon? I saw on the Ntl Forest website that Sitting Bull Falls will be open in a few weeks!! Very exciting news.

Careful with the fire, people!

By Jason Halladay
Administrator
From: Los Alamos, NM
Mar 28, 2012

texasclimber22, the Stone Age Gym posted on Facebook this week:

Stone Age Climbing Gym wrote:
We just got word that Last Chance will NOT open on April 6th as promised. No word on the new date.

By texasclimber22
Apr 4, 2012

Thanks a bunch, I'm glad to see that it will be open again! Place is amazing...

By Craig Childre
From: Lubbock, Texas
May 23, 2012

Last word is that Last Chance will be closed until the fall of 2012, as the area is still in the recovery phase. The possibility of pushing it into 2013 is still an option, should plant stability and moisture levels dictate.

By masumi
Dec 2, 2013

LOST: I think I forgot 4 purple BD quickdraws at Solstice Cave on 11/28/13. If you find them, please contact me or enjoy the draws I so desperately miss :)

By Luke Bertelsen
Dec 24, 2013

Does anyone have recent road details after the recent rains/snow has come through over the last few weeks?

Thanks.

By Aleksander
Mar 26, 2014

About road conditions. Made it there in the minivan. It was very hard at one rocky section. Other than that its passable road when dry. it snowed at night just a little bit (late February) and it was a disaster! Very soft wet slippery soil! It took me 4 hours to drive out. You basically cant get out of ruts, and i didn't have the clearance to drive in them. I don't think any 4wd will have this kind of problem.
The place itself is fantastic, just little to challenging for my level.