is the quad really necessary?

I was looking at my quad the other day, and got to thinking... Why not just use a short version of an equalette? The limiter knots would be the same as on my equalette (7mm perlon) and the two primary legs still get the same type of pull as if there was four pieces of gear in the system, perhaps better since they can slide and pull evenly through the biners. Since the equalette only uses these principles, why is there a need for a four strand quad?

Is a quad necessary? Why not this?

None of those "engineer" anchors are necessary.

My point here is, do you see how small and simple this really is? It stays pretied for when I come across a bolted anchor, multipitch or otherwise. Though I've been building equalettes for a few years now, and have only taken very short falls on them in the worst senarios ( no jesus nut available) with no blowouts, and still believe that only the worst situations (climbers placing poorly) cause anchor failure. Long has a point in terms of equalization/redundancy giving you the greatest chance of survival with the new anchors, so try to stay open minded. Things evlove. But you are right, amchors don't normally blow. I was just wondering with how small and simple this is, does it look legit? Seems like it to me. Just figured I'd get some second opinions.

Does Mointain Project really need another anchor thread?

don't those extra knots in the photo just weaken the strength of the cordelette used? At that acute angle, I don't mess with extra knots at all.

Probably not Mr. Williams, I was asking if this looks legit where the quad seemed like overkill. The "extra knots" are limiting knots in case one of the bolts fails as used in the 7mm equalette.

Tying two knots instead of one is an extra step you don't need to take besides tying this way will be hard to keep the direction of the fall intact on an equalized station and where is your third point? Stick to the original equalized cordilette model and use power cord to cut on bulk.

Just use the rope. You are already tied in to the strongest, most dynamic part of the system. Just use it.

Simple is good.

Mike wrote:Just use the rope. You are already tied in to the strongest, most dynamic part of the system. Just use it. Simple is good.

I thought we were talking trad here?

Since nobody has answered you: This method is adequate and safe to use.

I don't get some peoples' hesitation toward using a cord...it has its application, just as anchoring with the rope does.

Elena Sera Jose wrote: I thought we were talking trad here?

We are.

Ryan Nevius wrote:...I don't get some peoples' hesitation toward using a cord...

A quick look at my original post will explain my hesitation for doing so. That is just my personal opinion; there are many ways to anchor safely. YMMV.

As in: you are going to build your equalized station with your climbing rope? Never heard of that please post pics and explain.

Elena Sera Jose wrote:As in: you are going to build your equalized station with your climbing rope? Never heard of that please post pics and explain.

If you've never even heard of building the anchor with the rope (the oldest, simplest, & strongest method) then maybe you shouldn't be giving advice on building anchors?

There have been several threads in the past illustrating the methods, including the pros & cons. Look them up.

Vince Hall wrote:Probably not Mr. Williams, I was asking if this looks legit where the quad seemed like overkill. The "extra knots" are limiting knots in case one of the bolts fails as used in the 7mm equalette.

Bolts fail? So is it trad or sport? and ....bolts fail? If you question a bolt place a piece to back it up and equalize. Usually there's no need to equalize a bolted station.

Mike wrote: If you've never even heard of building the anchor with the rope (the oldest, simplest, & strongest method) then maybe you shouldn't be giving advice on building anchors? There have been several threads in the past illustrating the methods, including the pros & cons. Look them up.

Hm yea you go right ahead and do that im OK with my method.

I've always looked at that 7mm cordelette as the weak point in the system...why oh why not use a 9mm at least? Or strong runners. I certainly wouldn't be climbing trad or sport on 7mm to take a fall, so why would I want it to be my life anchor? Just a preference of mine never to use thin cord for major rope anchors. It might do fine for hanging at the top of a sport route while switching to rappel, but not for my anchor capable of taking a fall.

Woodchuck ATC wrote:I've always looked at that 7mm cordelette as the weak point in the system...why oh why not use a 9mm at least? Or strong runners. I certainly wouldn't be climbing trad or sport on 7mm to take a fall, so why would I want it to be my life anchor? Just a preference of mine never to use thin cord for major rope anchors. It might do fine for hanging at the top of a sport route while switching to rappel, but not for my anchor capable of taking a fall.

Woods... dude.....go bribe one if your grandkids to belay you outside man!...I suggest candy.....

Thanks all for your replies, I think some of you missed the point. This is for two bolt anchors in sandstone. I try to be as conscious about the gear that stays in the walls as possible so that any one piece doesn't ever bear the entire load. Yes, bolts can fail in sandstone (poorly installed, old, fake, whatever the case we don't ever trust just one). 7mm cord has it's uses and I have built anchors with the rope (usually when I or my partner has forgotten their anchor equipment) and like I said before, my equalette has withstood hard falls without a jesus nut, so I am fairly apt to trust my anchor. Besides, can you really deny the testing sterling ropes did?

It looks fine, but to me it misses the point of self equalizing, just like all limiting knots do in a self equalizing system.

I like the self equalizing system when I'm going to be stepping off to the side of the belay, changing the angle quite a bit. This set up certainly would NOT have enough play to allow that type of movement.

The most simple method would be to just have 2 double runners in the self equalizing position and call it good, yeah? I either do that or sometimes just do a double runner self equalized, then take a long tether of the climbing rope and clove it into one of the bolts to get my redundancy. Easy!

Woodchuck ATC wrote:I've always looked at that 7mm cordelette as the weak point in the system...why oh why not use a 9mm at least? Or strong runners. I certainly wouldn't be climbing trad or sport on 7mm to take a fall, so why would I want it to be my life anchor? Just a preference of mine never to use thin cord for major rope anchors. It might do fine for hanging at the top of a sport route while switching to rappel, but not for my anchor capable of taking a fall.

I think that Sterling makes a 7.1mm dynamic ice line. That would be sweet to have for anchoring. I dont think they sell it by the foot though.

Woodchuck ATC wrote:I've always looked at that 7mm cordelette as the weak point in the system...why oh why not use a 9mm at least?

I think the idea is that the 7mm cord is always doubled when used to build an anchor. If your 7mm cord is 9 KN, then doubling it would make it just about as strong as anything else in the anchor.