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Is $33,000 enough to live in Denver?

Original Post
GhaMby Eagan · · Heaven · Joined Oct 2006 · Points: 385

I just received a job offer for $33,000 to work in Denver as a Civil Engineer. That's only about $10,000 less than the lowest 10% of civil engineers start at: www1.salary.com/Civil-Engin…

I also have $75,000 in school debt. I can probably make as much dicking around the Eastern Sierras, what would you do?

Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520

I would go to the Sierras and get the better job.

MorganH · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 197
sweagan wrote:I just received a job offer for $33,000 to work in Denver as a Civil Engineer. That's only about $10,000 less than the lowest 10% of civil engineers start at: www1.salary.com/Civil-Engin… I also have $75,000 in school debt. I can probably make as much dicking around the Eastern Sierras, what would you do?
Bachelors or masters? I don't think you should start any lower than 50k, as an engineer with a bachelors and zero experience. Denver is not super expensive, but housing isn't cheap.
GhaMby Eagan · · Heaven · Joined Oct 2006 · Points: 385

I have a masters.

I feel offended by the offer, but it's the only one I've received in a long time. I wish my 9 years in the military did more for me.

Woodchuck ATC · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 3,280

Jobs suck right now..; go for it I say, rent cheap and see what happens as you keep the feelers out there for another opportunity. Something is better than no job, that's for sure.

Sir Wanksalot · · County Jail · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 10

You have zero experience in a market saturated with other whistle dicks that want to get paid too much for doing jack. Stay in Cali wanker! Only an engineer would be whining about a job offer with a 8% unemployment rate. Why didn't you work on getting your PE instead of wasting time on a Masters?

Berkeley · · Boulder, CO · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 10

Do you want to be an engineer? If so, I'd say take the job, tough it out for a year or two, and then look for something better. I think civil engineering has been hit really hard (along with construction), so if you don't have a lot of experience and have been out of the field for a while, you may be lucky that you got an offer at all. Spending a few more years climbing and doing odd jobs isn't going to help your resume.

You can absolutely make it in Denver on $33k a year. I live off of a graduate stipend (less than you'll be making) in Boulder, which is significantly more expensive than Denver, and I don't think my lifestyle is that bad.

If you're willing to live with roommates, you can probably find a nice place in a cool neighborhood in Denver for about $500/month. If you live alone, you can find an alright to not great but livable apartment for about $650. If you're willing to live in the suburbs, you can go really cheap. I've found that living in an inexpensive apartment makes a huge difference when you're on a tight budget. The fact that my rent is a few hundred bucks cheaper than many of my classmates is why I have spending money and they don't. Good luck!

fossana · · leeds, ut · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 13,318

Cost of living is slightly cheaper in Denver. Civil engineering jobs are hard to come by in Bishop, mainly Triad and CalTrans. Most of my friends that make $33K+ on the E Side either got really lucky, work remotely, or paid their dues (through patience, volunteer work, etc.) to get where they are. I lived in Bishop for 2 years total so I am familiar with the job market.

I would try to renegotiate your offer referencing the market rates.

Mike Pharris · · Longmont, CO · Joined May 2007 · Points: 125
fossana wrote:. I would try to renegotiate your offer referencing the market rates.
This. maybe they lowballed hoping you'd say yes. But, you will not negotiate that up to 50k. Thats just too much ground to cover. You might get them to 40k.

You could also negotiate for time off given the low pay - time off is worth a lot.
coppolillo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 70

i'm all for "just making it work" doing odd jobs...but fast-forward 10 years...are you gonna wish you'd put in some time at the bottom of the pay bracket? that's a tough one, bud...good luck!

i'm guessing you'll be more psyched in a decade if you're working in your chosen career, making good dough. if you spend the time climbing (pretty good option, though) you'll be starting out in engineering again...

hope it works out!

RC

coppolillo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 70

p.s.--yeah, 33K is workable in denver, if you live frugally and get roommates. i made do on way less in boulder for years...but i wasn't driving a cool car or going heli-skiing, that's for sure!

good luck bud!

Jeff Chrisler · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 145

unless the gig has the potential to pay quite a bit more and the firm is solid, the offer is seriously laughable and i would tell them that you deserve closer to 50k with a masters easily.

you could make 33k work in denver, but you'd have to be lean.

Parker Wrozek · · Denver, CO · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 86

The only way you could do it is scrimp like hell and ride a bike everywhere. Unless your loan people are very willing to work with you on the payments you are looking at ~$700-800/month in loan payments alone. But you could do it.

The offer is ridiculously low though. But that is what happens when you work for smaller consultants (assuming it is the case). They make money by you doing the grunt work, just the way it goes. You have to put up with it for 2-3 years and then jump ship to a place that will pay you.

Really the offer is probably $10-12K low. When I graduated (with a bachelors civil degree) in Dec 2008 (basically the time everything went to hell) I took a job at $53K and I thought I was getting low balled a bit. I turned down a job for $55K in Denver actually as well.

Worked for 3 years and then jumped to one of my clients for much higher pay and much much better benefits.

What discipline did you study in Civil for your UG and Masters? You probably don't want to tell but who was the offer from? Did you pass your FE?

At least with your Masters you get to knock one year off the experience for the PE...

Chris Plesko · · Westminster, CO · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 485

Ouch, starting Denver teachers make more than that with a bachelors and no experience. As an mechE I started out close to $50k and I wouldn't say I was top in my class by any means.

As to whether to take it or not, that depends on a lot more things which I'll let the others answer. If you need work badly, I wouldn't turn it down though. Just keep looking concurrently.

Eben Daggett · · Boulder, CO · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 15

I live just north of Denver (Westminster) on less than that. I also have 65K in student debt (also served in the military, we're the same person). My apartment is a two bedroom I split with my girlfriend. It is $700/month so I only pay $350. I only make, maybe, $15-$18K a year and live comfortably and still have money for all this expensive rock climbing crap. Well worth it. Right smack dab in the middle of Boulder Canyon, The Flatirons, Eldorado Canyon, Golden, Clear creek canyon, and about a 45 minute drive from RMNP. Just live cheap and you'll do plenty fine. Use this job as a stepping stone to the next one or just be like me and let a $150k education go to waste and work part time at Home Depot. hahaha

Michael Dupont · · Woodbury, MN · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 30

As a civil/structural engineer with 12 years experience that offer is a bit of a low ball, bordering on insulting especially since you have your masters. I think my starting salary fresh out of school with only a BS was higher than that, (maybe $35k). There is NOTHING wrong with counter offering, although if it's a municipality they're probably constrained by whatever the government unit wage rates are, but there should be some wiggle room.

Ignore Randy W. who apparently can't remember that the job market was much, much worse two years ago, which I'm guessing was why you continued on and earned your masters. How the hell is somebody supposed to "work on their PE" when nobody was hiring then is beyond me. They sure as shit wouldn't have hired someone directly out of college when those of us with much more experience and PEs were being laid off left and right. Those of us with a PE will always get hired at a cut rate faster than those fresh out of college with or without a masters. Engineer rant off.

The advantages of taking the job is that it allows you to network with other professionals. The best way to do that is while working, ideally you could be assigned to a large design build project and make a good impression on colleagues at other companies who are willing to poach you from your current employer. It's just square one, that's all.

Larry S · · Easton, PA · Joined May 2010 · Points: 872

If it's the field you want to be in and you've been looking, i'd consider taking it for the experience. I'd never have had my current job skills or met my current employer w/o my first job. Counter-offer them something. If they're not willing to budge on the pay citing lack of experience, you may be able to get something like a guaranteed increases after so much time with them. I've also known people who negotiated extra vacation days instead of extra pay.

Elena Sera Jose · · colorado · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 350

So takehome would be like 2,000 a month or so...that's not too bad. Do u have a car payment? Children? Is your rack complete? How much do u pay a month in student loans? Take what's left and divide it by two that's how much u can afford to spend on rent. Consider how much u r gonna spend on fuel or u are going to bike to work? Good luck I think u will be allright!

GhaMby Eagan · · Heaven · Joined Oct 2006 · Points: 385

THANKYOU FOR THE ENCOURAGING WORDS.

The job is a fed job, So benefits are great, the job sounds like the type of stuff I enjoy and the people I met at the interview wee laid back. The issues are of course pay and I'm married. I've been living in apartment style living for 14 years now and was hoping that I could finally afford a 2 bedroom house with a garage and yard.

I don't understand the GS b.s. but the next grade up (which I thought I should be starting at) will be $42.

I am on the income based repayment plan with school loans so i only have to pay around $150 a month with this pay.

My undergrad was civil with emphasis towards water resources. My grad was environmental engineering.

Elena Sera Jose · · colorado · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 350
sweagan wrote:THANKYOU FOR THE ENCOURAGING WORDS. The job is a fed job, So benefits are great, the job sounds like the type of stuff I enjoy and the people I met at the interview wee laid back. The issues are of course pay and I'm married. I've been living in apartment style living for 14 years now and was hoping that I could finally afford a 2 bedroom house with a garage and yard. I don't understand the GS b.s. but the next grade up (which I thought I should be starting at) will be $42. I am on the income. Asked repayment plan with school loans so ionly have to pay around $150 a month with this pay. My undergrad was civil with emphasis towards water resources. My grad was environmental engineering. Anyone with fed experience? I think I automatically get 20 leave days a year, which is almost euro good. Too bad I won't be able to get anywhere.
Don't do the house unless your wife has a super steady job or u r handyman and willing to invest in a fixer upper then u will not have time to climb. Take the job though it sounds promising. Maybe get here and rent first untill u both are working and figured out your short and long term goals.
Jeffrey Arthur · · Westminster, CO · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 290
Randy W. wrote:You have zero experience in a market saturated with other whistle dicks that want to get paid too much for doing jack. Stay in Cali wanker! Only an engineer would be whining about a job offer with a 8% unemployment rate. Why didn't you work on getting your PE instead of wasting time on a Masters?
Just curious, but are you a PE, or even an engineer? Because you sound like the typical construction worker that thinks all engineers are idiots because you've been laying concrete your whole life and you know more than some engineer that got some piece of paper from an accredited university? Have you even looked at the current qualifications for Civil Engineers lately, because a MSCE is now mandatory and a PE is not. Also when was the last time you knew any Civil Engineer that sat around doing jack? The last time I checked none of my fellow civil engineers were whining about a shitty offer we were whining about not getting any interviews, or offers. Most Structural Engineers (Which I am one) work a minimum of 60 hrs/week.

A PE will get you nowhere with certain companies because they'll: A) Think they have to pay you too much and B) Have to train someone that is probably already jaded. It took me 7 years to get out of the Telecom industry where I designed towers, water tanks and foundations for a living. I just finally switched fields designing power plants and substations which I had to convince the hiring managers that there wasn't much difference between the two disciplines.

There is so much competition and overhead in Civil Engineering and liability insurance that salaries have traditionally been below avg compared to other disciplines. I owned a structural engineering company and started another Denver division here and before I left we were offering $10/hr for a BS and $15/hr for an MSCE because you could. If you didn't take it the next guy would.

I just took a $12,000 pay cut with my new job, but I was pretty psyched to finally get out of this dying Telecom industry to finally work with a company that's been around for 114 yrs.

My advice to the OP is to take the job, work it out, you'll be off at 4pm everyday for a Federal job so you can get a second job, climb after work, or look for another job while you're here.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Colorado
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