The rangers at Eldo will close off the appropriate trails if you coordinate with them to trundle rocks off a route. This was done when the tree formerly used for the Vertigo rappel was trundled.

First, cheers to belayer Chris for hanging onto his leader. I'm surprised that this block/flake lasted as long as it did- it's been bunk for many years. Obviously, there's lots of loose rock even in a popular area like Eldo. The freeze-thaw action will ensure that there'll be more. Too bad these two had to take the consequence of that erosion, and I wish them speedy and full recoveries. Word of mouth, and MP posts will help pass info on these loose passages, but objective hazard will always be part of the game we play. Due caution is something we must all exercise constantly. I've had the approval and assistance of ECSP when I wanted to peel off loose blocks in the past. I've had their assist while tossing from areas affecting Ruper, Genesis, and the Bastille. They were good by helping close off areas while the choss was flying.

As far as RMR... There may be some validity to criticisms being leveled, but overall these people are a great resource and have helped the injured far more than they have hurt. Their approach may be overblown, overpopulated, and overcautious, but their results are outstanding. My own experiences (from the outside watching, helping to string ropes for them when I could, and from inside the litter) show them to be honest and caring. Their gang-tackle mentality is probably fostered by the view that a rescue is better served by too many rather than too few. It's easy to quibble with their deployment procedures, and they could probably be improved. But, I don't think they deserve the harshing they've received in this post. My own rescue 10 years ago was efficient and safe. Time seemed of little consequence knowing that their main intent was a positive outcome. I'm sure they would welcome the services of those who are so sure they could do better!

An awfully high horse you ride upon Healy! Wow, hope you never need anyone's assistance. Good to see you got it all figured out. Now, which professional rescue groups were you associated with? Which training did you receive (beyond your old school common sense training)? Many of your statements thus far have been entirely baseless. Having masses at the site did not have a negative impact on the rescue. Were you there, not sure I saw you (we'd locate you by your all-knowing presence). My guess is that you have not received professional training in these kinds of issues, because your email would probably look more like Marc's (filled with information that comes from the source) and not the polar opposite.

The rescue saved a life, does that work for you?

My wife works in the Operating Room where Chris is having his surgeries and she saw him yesterday. She spoke with him and he is doing well. "It's a great climb."

All the best for quick and complete recovery.

I think y'all need to chill out just a little and regain the big picture perspective here. Nothing and noone is above and beyond comment and/or criticism, however . . .

I completely agree with Mic, we are so lucky to have these SAR services in this area. Speaking as one who also has seen SAR responses from inside and outside the litter, there is no doubt I completely owe my life to Alpine SAR (and a couple close friends). noone and no system is beyond improvement but they do a fantastic job overall. Lets try to focus some really postiive healing energy back on the Chris's. and I think the idea of having a bit more official organization for removing such death blocks is a great idea, at the very least having those that are well known listed in the same place in an organized fashion will be a huge safety improvement, even before (if) they get trundled.

My most positive healing thoughts are with you Chris and Chris.

paz y amor

I don't know why everyone is laying into Healyje so bad. He brings up a perfectly valid point. What if there were a hundred rescuers there, 2/3 of which were just sitting around shooting the sh!t. A lot of them would probably be in the way. People on here are acting like Healyje is condemning the rescuers as a bunch of crackpots that have no clue what they're doing and shouldn't be there at all. He's not. He is simply providing criticism for a single aspect of their operation that could probably use some rethinking. People need to get off this idea that because the RMR is trying to help, that puts them above all criticism. By that logic FEMA shouldn't have been criticized for their part in the Katrina disaster because, after all, "they were just trying to help."

Sorry, I don't think I'm the one on the 'high horse' here. And no, I'm not associated with a rescue group and don't have any rescue certifications. But don't take that to mean I've not been involved in or done rescues in over three decades of climbing, or that 'professional training' is necessary to objectively evaluate what I saw. Over those decades I've seen and assisted in several incidents (just like climbers did in this one) where the 'professionally trained' rescuers placed themselves and the victim in deadly peril and needed assistance to extricate themselves from the situation. I'm not saying that is the case with RMR rescues, but simply that in this incident, and several I witnessed in the mid-70's, that RMR's response was out of scale to the technical requirements of the rescue. And the fact that none of the rescuers or bystanders were injured this time doesn't mean that will always be the case when fielding similar numbers.

Could you guys take the whole rescue team discussion to another forum? I'd like to have one place to go to just hear about how the climbers are doing. The rescue team discussion belongs in a separate forum for those who are interested.

That's fine, I don't really have anything further to add and do very much wish the climbers well in what I hope will be as speedy a recovery as possible.

John, thanks for the report update from your wife. Hopefully today is a good day on a road to recovery also..!

Best Cheers & positive wishes ~Kirra

Joe, unfortunately, this really is the best place to address the issue of climber & rescue safety between both communities.

The issue was brought up by climbers and have not yet really indicated where there was a safety concern. Other than to keep repeating there was a concern based on ?? I guess the amount of personnel that were just staging systems for scree and a high-line and not committed to the wall. But in any case, climbers need to make this situation safe for all rescue personnel -- it just doesn't hold water.

Mike, the points brought up really don't have a basis; they are not relying on anything that will make a rescue better or safer. Regretfully, you wrote a post that doesn't have a foundation about how a successful rescue is performed. I've read the entire context of this thread; the implication wasn't about just one aspect, the manner of mtn rescue was questioned & attacked for no beneficial purpose.

Clearly stated, RMRG is not above criticism; these mtn rescue teams hold themselves to account as well as many other outside organizations that review what they do. Acting like they could care less really gets it with me.

I don't know Chris but I certainly wish him
well in his recovery, keep us posted how he is
doing.

Also- I think it would be really cool to have
the eldo cookie girl bring him some fresh baked
cookies...Does anyone know the cookie girl ?

Much and speedy healing to the two Chris's, and I'm glad everyone survived. I was belaying Steve D once on Difraction when a block he was grabbing moved visibly -- he was so wrapped up in the climbing he didn't notice it. He went back up there, and sure enough, this coffee-table-sized thing was unhinging from the wall.

Eldo can be scary that way. Safe climbing to all.

Matt

I think the most productive idea coming out of this thread is keeping a list of trundle-worthy blocks that can be brought down under controlled conditions. Something along the lines of a crag clean-up day where areas can be blocked off below the fall zone. Seems pretty clear that the block that led to this accident (and others I'm sure) was suspect for a long time, and if it had been removed under controlled conditions this accident probably wouldn't have happened. Maybe a specific forum here to start a list? May as well make something positive come out of this accident.

VERY well said Mic, Mark and Wayne. While It's very easy to sit back and say what we/you/me/whomever would have or should have done is easy to say. The fact is, at least to me, the BOSAR gang(massive though they may be) got er' done. PERIOD. I actually like that they have alot of newbies on hand to learn from the more experienced so that when some are retiring, there will always be others to VOLUNTEER to come rescue my ass. All critisisms aside, good job BOSAR(ya' buncha trauma freaks).

Slimy Spoon: wedged block pitch 3
Northwest Corner Bastille: detached flake pitch 3
Wind Ridge: flake on 2nd walk-off escape

All,

A group of us went to visit Chris at St. Anthony's last night. He's is in great spirits and hanging out with Mindy (our climbing doctor and angel) and his mom.

He's way stronger than I can imagine - I'd be crying like a newborn at this point from the pain. Surgery Sunday (8 hours), Tues and then Thursday (4 hours) and next is Sunday.

The block was in fact more coffee table sized and landed on him when he was sitting. So it landed in his lap and stayed there for quite some time. Luckily there were some legendary Eldo locals on nearby routes to come to his aid.

Chris wanted to clarify that without RMR he'd not be here right now. He is very unhappy to hear the amount of negative talk about RMR. He's pretty disappointed that we'd trash talk a group that none of us are participating in. I believe his exact words had a lot more explitives than that. He can elaborate later when he can get to a computer.

Good news Ray..!! Thanks for the update, best wishes ~Kirra

This is just a quick shout out to RMR and all my rescuers. You guys are the best and I owe you my life. I want you all to know how thankful I am for the rescue you provided me. I cant believe all the bullshit that gets talked about on this site. The fact that people are bad mouthing RMR blows my mind, it is completely illogical.

As for a quick update, I have been out of the ICU for a week and I believe I finished my last surgery for this hospital visit today (Tuesday the 13th). I had 8 surgeries in 16 days it has been pretty wild. In the next week I will probably be going to in-patient rehab for a while either in Denver or Boulder but I am not sure yet. Chris Lee is out of the hospital and went back work on Monday.

Thanks for all the support, it has meant a great deal.
See you on the rock!

Chris-

Great to hear such positive words from you! Keep it up your attitude and hard work will carry you through this! Rock On!!!

best wishes. . . . paz y amor

Wayne

Best wishes Chris. We're al looking forward to having you back up here in Boulder. But until then, enjoy the jello.