Disclaimer: I know I need to see an MD. I have and to no avail. Just wondering if anyone has had this kinda' thing.

I hurt the back of my left shoulder on a climb 6 months ago liebacking with my left arm across the front of my body. Since then it hasn't gotten a ton better. It hurts if I sit and my shoulders slouch forward alot. My shoulder blade doesn't seem to move right and the bottom feels like it's tipping away from the my body. It's the worst when i lie on my right side and my left arm lays straight out to the side (like your spoonin' ya' know).

No rotator cuff exercises, acupuncture, rest, or posture work seems to help and the MD's keep telling my things that don't seem to jive.

If you've had a similar experience it would be awesome to hear from you, to gain some more knowledge to seek out care.

push ups are the only thing that has ever helped my shoulders or posture- whenever my shoulders have started to give me trouble, it has usually been attributable to getting lazy because i'm getting worked over on the job or doing something physically 'different' that causes muscle imbalance- this tightens/ reduces the space in the shoulder where the tendons and what-not connect and then suddenly i'm feeling all gimpy- for me, push-ups keep everything regulated in the shoulder region.

I currently have a torn rotator cuff. I did it in July and I have been able to climb with it since. However, I am getting it surgically repaired. The only thing I can't do climbing is hang with my full body weight on the injured arm/shoulder. The only real way to diagnose a tear of anything in your shoulder is with an MRI. Prior to my MRI the orthopedic specialist I saw diagnosed a torn labrum. Sleeping is the worst, climbing does not actually hurt it that much, but lifting heavy objects with the injured arm/shoulder hurts as well. Physical therapy will help to keep your shoulder strong and loose, but if you have a tear it won't heal on its own.

My last shoulder injury occurred six years ago after falling from a boulder problem in Morrison. While falling, I did not release my grip on the rock, thus, shock-loading my left shoulder and eventually crashing onto the ground. I purchased my first and only crash pad shortly after.

I did not go to the doctor at first. However, after nearly two sleepless nights, I crawled out of bed and went to the ER. My shoulder was completely jacked. The doctor x-rayed my shoulder and sent me to a DO. The diagnosis was a severely sprained shoulder. He put my shoulder in a sling and told me to take hot baths with Epsom salt. (Epsom salt draws the liquid out of your joints). He gave me a prescription for Vicodin, Motrin,and Ibuprofen. Lots of rest and no climbing. Also, start taking MSM(a capsule with an ingredient that nourishes joints). And, Ornica(an ointment that will ease the pain and help heal your shoulder). Both of these items can be purchased at any health food store(Vitamin Cottage, Whole Foods).

Go to the doctor and get checked out. Yep, you might be laid up for a few weeks(even a couple of months) , but what the hell, it's winter and the snow is not going anywhere for a long time. You'll be good for the Spring, buddy!!

Shane

"It hurts if I sit and my shoulders slouch forward alot. My shoulder blade doesn't seem to move right and the bottom feels like it's tipping away from the my body"

That's because you probably injured your rhomboids or your serratus anterior. You need PT. Find a good shoulder/hand PT in your area and they'll straighten it out. Whatever your doc says, try some PT.

I once had a case of stretched ligaments in both shoulders from cranking hard on pipe wrenches all day for 4 months; I can see where a session of repititive stress from laybacking could produce the same type injury.

My rehab was a lengthy series of low-intensity resistance exercizes using different densities of rubber bands and hoses. It took about 6 months, including following thru for several weeks beyond the pain ending. Have you been through a similar program yet?

Also, beware the chems. In this day and age its becoming more and more common to simply prescribe masks and move on to next patient. I recently went in for what I thought was tendonitis in my elbow (actually was a torn bicep), and came out of my appointment with what may be a lifetime supply of some anti-inflammatory/pain med. I took about 3 tabs, still have like at least 100.

Injuries blow. There are many muscles involved that could be the culprit if your MD has already ruled out a tear. The way you describe your action at the time of injury leads me to believe it is lats, teres minor and major along with infraspinatus but without muscle testing I don't know. You mention your shoulder blade doesn't feel like it is moving right. The bodies defense mechanism to injury is to tighten all the muscles around the joint to limit movement and prevent further injury. Until this muscles are loosened up and retrained to stretch to their fullest capacity, your pain will likely stay with you. Find a good massage therapist trained in shoulder injuries. Start with going to www.stjohnseminars.com and call them. They should be able to give you recommendations on therapists in your area who have the specific training you need. Good luck and best wishes on getting better!

scapular winging is most often due to a serratus anterior tear. Rhomboid strains can dis-inhibit serratus and cause winging too.

go see a PT

Avoid taking any OTC or prescribed anti-inflammatories or pain killers. They can cause liver and kidney damage. What is not generally known is how long they stay in your body. You can take a course for a few days or weeks and not take another course for months. Since it is stored, it is like taking doses back to back.

Instead use bromelain capsules, an enzyme that comes from pineapples. If taken with a meal, it is a digestive enzyme for protein. Taken on an empty stomach, it is a very effective anti-inflammatory, with no side effects. Tumeric and Omega 3 oils are anti-inflammatory.

Also, use ArniFlora Gel. (contains arnica, an herb that is great for sprains and strains) Apply it like a sports cream but it doesn't have a disagreeable odor. Also, it doesn't wear off fast, instead it takes awhile to kick in and then last a long time. Additionally, the massage required to apply the Gel is very beneficial.

Investigate Rolfing massage therapy. It can be painful, but breaks up scar tissue and realigns. Look into chiropractic also.

Try this drink first thing in the morning on an empty stomach:
1 scoop Type I & III Collagen powder
1-2 Bromelain capsules (broken open)
1 gram Vit C
frozen concentrated apple juice to sweeten a little
12 oz water
dash of cayenne
(mix slowly to avoid foaming)
Both bromelain and collagen need to be taken on an empty stomach to be effective.

Analyze your diet to avoid free radical sources and add strong sources of anti-oxidants such as vit and minerals, vegetables and fruits, green tea, red tea, yerba mate, pomegranate juice, aronia berries (found in Old Orchard brand frozen concentrated Cranberry juice (aronia berries are much higher in antioxidants than blueberries)), blueberries, watermelon, tomatoes, etc. A diet high in free radicals and low in anti-oxidants can slow healing and make one more susceptible to overuse injuries.

If you require surgery, these suggestions (minus Rolfing and Chirpractic) can speed healing. Before resorting to surgery try the collagen drink for a couple of weeks.

I didn't have the same symptoms with my shoulder injury, but this routine cleared it up. Use relatively light dumbbells. Instead of counting, use a timer. In a standing shoulder press, do quick reps at the very lower range of motion (don't drop your elbows below your shoulders) for 20-30 seconds. Without pausing, go to the very upper range and do quick reps for 20-30 seconds. Finally, also without pausing, full range for 20-30 secs. With your stretching routine, carefully windmill your arm through the full range of motion without pain. Do it fairly vigorously and quickly.

I don't know if Steve Ilg is still designing personal programs, but he cleared up a lot of my overuse injuries.

Heal Fast!

I have had a seperated ac joint in my left shoulder and it never healed completely but it is not one of my most significant injuries that I struggle with so I don't worry about it too much. Since it doesn't seem to keep me from doing what I want to do...for the most part and is just slightly uncomfortable some of the time.

My main injury right now is an unstable scaphoid in my right wrist. Basically I injured/ripped/tore the tendons that hold this little bone in place with his 5 buddies that allow the type of motion that the wrist can do. After exrays and talking to a few doctors the concensus is I am screwed. The surgrey is about a 50/50 chance of working and they actually drill a hole in the bone thread the tendon through it and tie a knot. This is supposed to pull the bone back into place. If it works it will hold out for about 10 years and then they will just cut out the bone and fuse the rest. Pretty bad.

I don't really trust doctors and especially surgrey that will permanently change any part of your body. In searching the other routes that might exist (the surgeon told me there were no other options) I have come across a different and non-aggresive approach called Prolotherapy. I will be visiting them next week to see what the deal is but apparently for damaged tendons this is the best way to encourage healing without having someone cut you open and permanently change you.

Has anyone had any experience with Prolo? Ian I don't know if your problem is related to tendons or muscle but maybe something to look into.

Jeff, I actually have heard of Prolo and there seems to be mixed opinions on it's effects. Being from the classic western scientific paradigm it takes a lot of research to convince me. A lot of people seem to think it really helps, but you need a good practitioner to administer it. From what I hear though Insurance doesn't cover it and it's rather expensive, but hell it's your body and you'd probably spend more on your car if it broke down.

I've been trying to recover from bicep tendinitis and bursitis for about 7 months now. From what I'm told, shoulder injuries take a long time to heal. I haven't climbed for most of that time (several months ago I tried once a week and never more than a 5.8...since then have been resting again). I tried seeing a physical therapist and have continued doing the exercises that are supposed to fix things. None of that seems to work very well. I am seeing a really good massage therapist who's also recommended some additional exercises that seem to help somewhat. It's rough, b/c there isn't much blood flow to your shoulders, which would help healing. I'm considering acupuncture and if all else fails, cortisone. If you find something that works, I'd be eager to hear. Be careful with all the herbal stuff...that can poorly interact with pain meds and can create further problems.

Have you gone to a good sports medicine Dr? Someone who is familiar with shoulders and the various ways they are injured via sports would be a good 2nd opinion. I have seen a few shoulder injuries through the work comp cases I handle at work. Most have been from falling on ice and catching their fall with a stiff arm and a few repetitive motion ones. MRI's don't always reveal all of the damage or exactly what is going on with the shoulder. After all else has failed to help the shoulder heal, surgery has been done. Sometimes surprises are found that didn't appear on the xray/MRI. I'm not promoting surgery, but use it as a last resort.

There are so many things going on with the shoulder joint that not every Dr. may be familiar with. I'm familiar with a few Dr. in the Boulder area, but not in the Springs.

Rest may help, but if there is something wrong it may need to be fixed. I'm in favor of creams and rubs to help deal with the stress that climbing puts on the body.

Good luck

I know this'll sound obvious but I've just spent the last 2 months recovering from a herniated disc. I didn't have surgery, take pills, or do exercises.

Pain is the body's way of telling you to stop for awhile, and you can't rush the body when it needs time to heal.

I hurt like hell for the 1st month. The 2nd month I felt like a pathetic invalid. Just recently I went back out and felt great.

p.s. MDs try their best, but in this day and age of malpractice, they want to do every test they can imagine in order to prove they tried everything. Get the MRI if you can, just so you know what you're up against. Then try A LOT of rest. If you need a good anti-inflammatory, ice always works and it doesn't fuck up your body.

Without much other information than what you have provided, it is hard to tell exactly what is wrong with you shoulder. But...it sounds like your scapula (wingbone) is "winging". This phenomenon is not common with an impingement syndrome or rotator cuff tendonitis. The two most common causes for this would be a tear of your serratus anterior muscle or paralysis of the nerve (called the long thoracic nerve) going to the serratus anterior muscle (it could also be a trapezius problem but this is less common). If this has been going on 6 months, a tear of the muscle would most likely have healed and with the exercises you were given and performed you would have likely strengthened the muscle. To diagnose a nerve paralysis like this you need to see a well-qualified physician with training or experience in sports medicine. An EMG/NCV (electromyography/nerve conduction velocity) study is commonly used to confirm this diagnosis. Best of luck.

Ian, does your shoulder blade stick out like this?

Ahhh, Mike! Man if my shoulder looked like that I'm sure I'd have a couple more phys visits. It only feels like it's winging, it doesn't look a whole lot like it is. John, thanks for the advice. I've been thinking it was a nervous problem(entrapment or somethin'), but physicians don't seem to think so. You had any experience rehabbing/fixing that type of thing? I've set another appointment with some of the USOC docs here so maybe they'll have some info...I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks for all the advice.

Well, that's good to hear!! This might be a good resource:

http://www.shoulderdoc.co.uk/patient_info/article.asp?articl>>>>>

lookd to me like you have no Rhomboids... might want to get some as they counter the lats.

Tried some cortisone recently. Helped for about two weeks and then things went back down hill, even with slow rehab exercises and yoga I've got pain again. Just thought I would give everyone an update. Of everything, occassionally yoga makes it feel fantastic, so I guess i'm just gonna' keep rockin' that out.

Might try ASTYM (a relatively new branch of PT).

I tore my a/c joint years ago, still pains me at times. I hate hard r/hand gastons...but have been on a pretty steady P/T program for a while which has really strengthened "the girdle"...