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Mixed Climbing - Protection Ethics

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By Mark Nelson
From Coniferous, CO
Nov 6, 2006
 In a zoo in California, a mother tiger gave birth to a rare set of triplet tiger cubs.    Unfortunately, due to complications in the pregnancy, the cubs were born prematurely and due to their tiny size, they died shortly after birth. <br /><br />The mother tiger after recovering from the delivery, suddenly started to decline in health, although physically she was fine. The veterinarians felt that the loss of her litter had caused the tigress to fall into a depression. The doctors decided that if the tigress could surrogate another mother's cubs, perhaps she would improve. <br /><br />After checking with many other zoos across the country, the depressing news was that there were no tiger cubs of the right age to introduce to the mourning  mother. The veterinarians decided to try something that had never been  tried in a zoo environment. Sometimes a mother of one species will take on the care of a different species. The only "orphans" that could be found quickly, were a litter of weaner pigs.  The zoo keepers and vets wrapped the piglets in tiger skin and placed the babies around the mother tiger.<br />

With respect to climbing mixed & ice routes within an alpine setting on public property; are there ethics addressing protection like hammering pins?

Is it acceptable to lead a mixed/ice route placing pins as necessary?

Assume that for the sake of this post, there are no land management concerns either prohibiting or regulating climbing protection.

What is good style for a lead?

By John J. Glime
From Salt Lake City, UT
Nov 6, 2006
bird? no.  plane? no.  me? oh yeah.

Definitely acceptable. In alpine and ice, pins are always acceptable. Nature of the beast, don't fall, and don't die, do what is necessary.

By steve p
From Scotia, New York
Nov 6, 2006
On the Grand Teton

Just got my pins back out today!

By Leo Paik
Administrator
From Westminster, Colorado
Nov 6, 2006

Mark, IMHO, there is so much freeze-thaw in areas that form water ice, that pins are hardly an "ethical" issue in this form of climbing. Rock climbing is a totally different world. In Vail, whole blocks fall off routinely on mixed routes (see Secret Sickle). Alexander's Chimney, RMNP, is a good example of where you take anything on a mixed route. If you're referring to your photo/my comment at Lincoln on the left variation to Scottish gully (since you posted a photo about my comment), I didn't pound pins; however, with the ice as it appeared to form, I thought that an average idgit, like me, in certain conditions, might find rock gear hard to trust, ice screws impossible to trust, and pins the only sane options for pro. You are climbing on a 2nd pitch there. The best thing for a climber is to be able to come back another day to climb. Funny, turns out we did another pitch that day, I did this little pillar up and left. No pins. Couldn't find a good anchor to be below. My partner popped his tools, and I wound up with contused legs as I got dragged down into my anchor and basically did a flip. Peace.

By Mark Nelson
From Coniferous, CO
Nov 7, 2006
 In a zoo in California, a mother tiger gave birth to a rare set of triplet tiger cubs.    Unfortunately, due to complications in the pregnancy, the cubs were born prematurely and due to their tiny size, they died shortly after birth. <br /><br />The mother tiger after recovering from the delivery, suddenly started to decline in health, although physically she was fine. The veterinarians felt that the loss of her litter had caused the tigress to fall into a depression. The doctors decided that if the tigress could surrogate another mother's cubs, perhaps she would improve. <br /><br />After checking with many other zoos across the country, the depressing news was that there were no tiger cubs of the right age to introduce to the mourning  mother. The veterinarians decided to try something that had never been  tried in a zoo environment. Sometimes a mother of one species will take on the care of a different species. The only "orphans" that could be found quickly, were a litter of weaner pigs.  The zoo keepers and vets wrapped the piglets in tiger skin and placed the babies around the mother tiger.<br />

Leo, yea thanks for looking into this. My pic & your comment just happened to be coincidence only.

John & I happened upon that section by getting out of the bowling alley to that right set of bolts, we looked to the left sidewall and said, it looks like it could go; and we found, the climb was good. We saw another tube to the right that was even harder, but don't think we could have gotten it on our first day out.

We then had a conversation when we got done: Man, a couple of pins to lead a rock pitch sure would be nice to have. We were actually looking at another different problem up there when we thought about using pins (an overhanging dihedral). But then we talked about having everyone up there seeing me bang the rock without understanding that nuts, cams, & tri-cams just weren't going to work. Is it cool or not to bang away? I guess in this venue, pins are acceptable.

By Chris Schauffele
Nov 7, 2006

When I don't have pins on the lead rack, one of my favorite pieces is the hammered in nut. Just watch your load direction.

By Brian Tessier
From Lakewood
Nov 10, 2006
mixed ice route<br />

There is only 1 rule to remember..
there are no rules..

By richP
Feb 20, 2007

Brian Tessier wrote:
There is only 1 rule to remember.. there are no rules..


Exactly!!!!

By John Calder
From Spokane, WA
Jun 6, 2007
Me

Hell yeah pins are acceptable. I climbed a route in Canada once and the pillar was too chewed up to get a screw. I wasn't going to climb it without pro, so a pin it was. Whatever it takes to save your ass.


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