I've been climbing on old school black prophets with alaskan picks for the past couple years and just upgraded to a pair of BD Vipers and just can't seem to get them to stick like my old tools. The good old thump of a solid placement just isn't there. I've only tooled around on some short sections of ice with them but I'm guessing it has more to do with my swing. Perhaps too much wrist flick... I really have no clue. Any suggestions? Less power, more power, a little downward pull to the shaft at contact?

A friend made the same transition and didn't like the Vipers. I bought them off him and loved them. That classic BD thump is there with the Vipers, but it will take a little adjustment I guess. Sorry I can't tell you exactly what the change is, but be patient. The Viper is a great tool but unfortunately, that particular transition is tough.

My friend ended up buying Quarks after I bought his Vipers. I am now myself adjusting from Viper to Reactor this season.

The old Prophets (whether they were old school "bent" or straight) required more of a 'wrist flick finish' then your new bent (now called clearance) shaft tools do. With the staighter shaft you need more wrist to get the head in front of the shaft.

Try a more natural swing (more elbow less wrist).....this is only true of course if you are not swinging over a bulge.... Basically play around with them more....you may like them you may hate them. personally I hate Quarks, to short....I am a Cobra fan. Just my two cents worth, hope it helps.....

Obviously you did not get to test the Vipers beforehand? That's what friends are for.... I have not bought a new ice tool without trying a friends or demoing. I tried the Quarks and they were too heavy for me and could not get that strike either, went to the Aztars and found a smaller grip, head weighted differently and viola, happy climber.
Sometimes, the newest toy that everyone is buying may not be the best for a person.
Good luck, retraining yourself.

luv the Vipes ~ Wow- never seen an old-school bp with alaskan picks, got any pics of your picks..to share..? heh-heh (always like to check out tool/gear variations)

Maybe try a day when it's not soo cold - my tools always sink better above 18F... and more power to ya~ Cheers

Hey Josh,

Since the picks are all made by BD, the transition should go pretty good. Maybe you just need a few more pitches in order to feel comfortable. I am trying to visualize the exact movement, like what Ron was suggesting, and I think that's pretty close to what I do. I went from the X-15 to the Cobra and then on to the Takoon (which I think you tried and didn’t care for). So, I think that would be a little close to what going from a BP to a Rave must be like. For me it is a nice smooth elbow movement followed by a flick of the rest at the very end. Sometimes I practice with one of those giant rubber bands (like you get from a physical therapist), trying to slowly recreate the same swing pattern. It helps loosen me up and probably build up a little endurance too. Too bad I am not always motivated to exercise like I should, eh? Hope you been getting out on some good climbs.

Kirra I threw a pic of the prophets into my gallery if you want to see the old school toys. Honestly I love those damn things. I've climbed up too WI 4/5 and in good clean ice they are rock stars. However in beat out ice they are crap hence the upgrade. As for swing modification with the Cobras I'm finding less wrist and a more natural follow through along with the return of one of the tools that had a factory defect that prevented one of the pics from being tighened down properly which gave me about 3mm of play in the tip and quite a bit of vibration.
Hey Julian been meaning to shoot you an e-mail. I'm gonna head up the Y coulior and check out total abandon. You interested in rope gunning if its in. Give me a chance to test out my swing on some steeper ice.

Hey Josh,

Total Abandon sounds great. Let me know if it is in.

Julian