Ice climbing in approach shoes

Any body done it? I know it's a terrible idea and i'm gunna die BUT, I see my self needing to do allot of snow and maybe even some really easy ice or mixed and I cant bring a nice stiff pair of boots. Any tips on ice climbing in approach shoes?

Well I can give you my experience. I did a solo linkup of all the 10,000+ peaks in the Cascades this summer (as part of the PCT) and had to do a fair amount of AI1-AI2 stuff in approach shoes (with BD Neve Crampons), especially on Glacier Peak (crater headwall was completely exposed due to early melt out). Bottom line, you can't front point so get good at french technique, and be ready to chop steps if it gets too steep. If you are mainly climbing then bring regular boots, approach shoes really only become worth it if you are doing much more hiking (for instance I chose to pack boots in to do Rainier and Little T).

Having the semi rigid crampon bars certainly helps kick steps in snow with approach shoes, but if you try front pointing the shoes just flex and it won't work. I found keeping my feet duck footed and hooking points on melt water features to be most effective but a vertical step would still stop you dead (especially with aluminum crampons). I read a thread on BPL about insane people adding handmade plywood insoles (or possibly purchasing carbon fiber/steel orthotics) to add the necessary rigidity but bottom line it really isn't worth it. Unless you are expecting to encounter only short sections of ice on something massive, I'd bring the right tools for the job.

There are some routes where this combination can work, such as the Grand Traverse in the Tetons. It's 99% scrambling and easy-to-moderate rock climbing but there are often a few short sections of frozen snow or bare ice. When I climbed it a couple of years ago I brought a pair of lightweight strap-on aluminum crampons (Camp XLC490) and used them with my approach shoes. They were sort-of-okay in that setting and I even managed a bit of front-pointing. (Camp now has a similar model in stainless steel, which would have been a better choice). But for anything more sustained I'd want proper mountaineering boots.

Tommy Caldwell and Alex Honnold used an approach shoe and strap-on crampon setup for their Fitz Traverse so it must work and has an UL application. Although a very specific one.
In the Bugs its a common setup to wear a light alpine boot/shoe (Scarpa Rebel Pro or La Sportiva Trango Cube) and crampons. It just depends on the objective.
Hope this helps!

I think it's a bit of a misconception that mountaineering boots should be stiff throughout. The crampon platform should be stiff (i.e. the boot should have a good shank) but the rest of the boot should be as soft as possible given the needed amount of insulation and durability.

There are some awesome 3-season mountaineering boots out there that climb ice as well as anything, albeit without much insulation. The mobility and sticky rubber also allows for performance on rock approaching that of approach shoes. A 3/4 shank will sacrifice a bit of frontpoint performance but will smear better.

Check out boots like the the Sportiva Trango S/Alp or the Scarpa Charmoz/Triolet. Provided you get a good fit and it's not too cold, there's very little these don't do well.

It is occasionally done by those going for speed ascents or "fast & light" in the Alps on moderate routes, for example Ueli Steck used them on Barre des Ecrins, but quite embarrassing when rescues are required (Google Kilian Jornet rescue on Frendo Spur)

My experience is that it is almost impossible to move on hard glacier or alpine ice without a stiff boot. Steep French technique combined with soloing is not something that I care to master.

I do this sometimes on rock routes that have a long walk in and the walk off is via easy snow . I use a stiffer approach shoe, English bindings (i.e. one long strap). If the show is deep I sometimes put plastic bags on top of my socks to keep them dry. If it is just one patch of snow, maybe up to the start of the route, I have been known to just put old woollen sock over my rock boots - works better than you might think.

Pictures here:

people.bath.ac.uk/dac33/hig…

Dont suppose any body has played with the edelrid beast lite crampons? Seems like the perfect crampon for what i'm after.

that guy named seb wrote:Dont suppose any body has played with the edelrid beast lite crampons?

It looks like they're semi-automatic, i.e. they need a boot with a heel welt and a fairly stiff shank. They'll fall off if your boot flexes too much. And they may not be available in the US.

that guy named seb wrote:Dont suppose any body has played with the edelrid beast lite crampons? Seems like the perfect crampon for what i'm after.

If you think these work on an approach shoe than you have absolutely no idea what you're looking for: edelrid.de/en/sports/beast-…

You better start with the basics of the different binding systems: ukclimbing.com/gear/review.…

Approach shoes with a strap on crampon work fine for low to moderate angle glacier travel. They are insecure on actual neve to ice on anything past the low 40 degree range.

parlez vous francais?

;)

Martin le Roux wrote: It looks like they're semi-automatic, i.e. they need a boot with a heel welt and a fairly stiff shank. They'll fall off if your boot flexes too much. And they may not be available in the US.

I can get them easy as a brit, just order some in from germany along with some different bindings, more suitable to a approach shoe.

Nick Drake wrote: If you think these work on an approach shoe than you have absolutely no idea what you're looking for: edelrid.de/en/sports/beast-… You better start with the basics of the different binding systems: ukclimbing.com/gear/review.… Approach shoes with a strap on crampon work fine for low to moderate angle glacier travel. They are insecure on actual neve to ice on anything past the low 40 degree range.

I have a good idea what i'm looking for it is you who doesn't know what he's looking at. edelrid.de/en/sports/Front-… you only needed to scroll down abit more to see there is more than one type of binding.

Yeah. It sucked

I ended up doing some AI2 in Garmont dragontails with air tech aluminum pons. Scared the piss out of me at the start, but once I stopped trying to frontpoint it wasn't so pants-shittingly bad. 2 is pretty easy and there were a lot of positive dishes to step in, so it worked, but not the smartest idea. Using some better crampons would have probably added a lot of stability and security.

If you're going to do it, at the very least use a steel front and bar.

Thought i would give a bit of insight to my approach shoes (a boot) is the La Sportiva hyper mid GTX. I think I shouldn't have any major issues fitting any crampons to it.

that guy named seb wrote: I have a good idea what i'm looking for it is you who doesn't know what he's looking at. edelrid.de/en/sports/Front-… you only needed to scroll down abit more to see there is more than one type of binding.

Sorry if I came off like a dick, but the strap binding attachments are NOT listed on Edelrid's page for the beast lite. Every other manufacturer's site that I've looked at lists binding options for that crampon on it's actual page.

Have you had a chance to use aluminum pons on actual ice yet? On a very short stretch of ice in the bugs with approach shoes and grivel air techs I was really wishing that I had steel pons. One of my partners also took a nasty slide on the approach to the upper NR of Stuart with that combo (I was not on that particular climb).
On the flip side I have done the emmons route in regular old light hikers with BD contacts and they did just fine. I wouldn't do that again though, it was absolutely miserable on my feet.

Where are you planning on going with this set up?

Nick Drake wrote: Where are you planning on going with this set up?

Most I could tell you is it will be in france, and i wont be able to carry much kit, not really sure where exactly, nor any details of the rest of the trip, yet.

that guy named seb wrote: Most I could tell you is it will be in france, and i wont be able to carry much kit, not really sure where exactly, nor any details of the rest of the trip, yet.

Gotcha, I've never climbed in France so I'm of no real use there. If you think you'll be doing a lot of travel on steep snow though what about a very light mountain boot? I had a pair of scarpa rebel carbons when they were out and was very impressed with their performance on rock (as well as snow and up to WI3). They do still make a "rebel lite" in the UK, which sounds like it has a more flexible sole than a standard mountain boot. They come in at 22 ounces each. Might be more than you want.

Sadly they don't market them in the states, but that could be worth a look: scarpa.co.uk/mountain/rebel…

• edit* just for reference I only suggest this because they do actually have high performance on rock. The rebel carbon was surprisingly sensitive, I could confidently climb in the 7-8 range with them.

I really do wish I could bring some proper boots but they are just to specialized and bulky for me to justify bringing them.

camp-usa.com/products/cramp…

Think this is as good as you can get for light alpine steel crampon. They also have step in and semi-auto bindings, but the universal is probably what you would need for the flexible shoes you are talking about.