By jnrose5
Mar 15, 2012
| A buddy of mine sent this picture to me. It's from a New Zealand Alpine Club publication. I don't know too much about it other than that.
Imagine you're seconding a pitch of ice, and you arrive at an anchor looking like this. Would you be worried? What issues might you have with this set up?
I actually think it's probably better than it looks. The axes are sunk in to the hilt, and are probably only slightly more likely to pull than the screws. Two-screw anchors are pretty much the norm, so this is actually MORE secure, right? Also, if the axes pulled, they'd "only" fall a few feet.
Bottom line: I'm not inspired by it, but I've climbed on worse.
| 2 or 4 piece anchor
Submitted By: jnrose5 on Mar 15, 2012
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By Larry S
Mar 15, 2012
| From the quote on the page in that picture, the axes are clipped to the anchor so you don't drop them and add a layer of backup to the anchor. I don't think they're intending it be used as a directional for your second. - (note - I've never ice climbed, so i may have no idea what i'm talking about) |
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By csproul
Mar 15, 2012
| Looks ok to me. Like you said, 2 screw anchors are fairly commonplace and this is actually better than a 2 screw anchor. As the poster said above, the second would not be weighting the axes, they are not a directional. The belay device would still be on the leader , so the weight of the second would come on the belayer and not on the axes. |
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By Jeff J
From Bozeman
Mar 16, 2012
| jnrose5 wrote: A buddy of mine sent this picture to me. It's from a New Zealand Alpine Club publication. I don't know too much about it other than that. Imagine you're seconding a pitch of ice, and you arrive at an anchor looking like this. Would you be worried? What issues might you have with this set up? I actually think it's probably better than it looks. The axes are sunk in to the hilt, and are probably only slightly more likely to pull than the screws. Two-screw anchors are pretty much the norm, so this is actually MORE secure, right? Also, if the axes pulled, they'd "only" fall a few feet. Bottom line: I'm not inspired by it, but I've climbed on worse.
It is an ok anchor. But for practical application, space out the ice tools a bit more to the side and move one of the screws up. Ice has a tendancy to fracture horizontaly, if one screw fracturs the ice it may compromise the second screw at the same level.
Now if you are running a multi pitch what I would do is place 1 screw at mid height, 1 screw higher up and a V thread lower down. biner and clove hitch the three points. Leave webbing and a biner on the V tread when the second leaves the belay so you can use it as a rappel anchor on the way back down. |
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By Buff Johnson
Mar 16, 2012
| The two screws are fine. I usually put an 8 on one of them. |
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By Bang
From Boulder
Mar 16, 2012
| Didn't Jeff Lowe mention similar setup in his ice book? There are picture of he using the ice tools as backup as well. |
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By Copperhead
Mar 16, 2012
| Make it better be putting the screws in a vertical line, if possible, and space out the tools. Otherwise, it is fine. |
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By Brendan Blanchard
From Strafford, NH
Mar 16, 2012
| Copperhead wrote: Make it better be putting the screws in a vertical line, if possible, and space out the tools. Otherwise, it is fine.
This.
Also Will Gadd has a post on his blog about his fast approach for doing LONG multi-pitch ice in Norway and such. Two screws in a (near) vertical line, bottom attached to the top one, top one to the person I believe. Read up on it before trying it of course. |
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By Gunkiemike
Mar 20, 2012
| Brendan Blanchard wrote: This. Also Will Gadd has a post on his blog about his fast approach for doing LONG multi-pitch ice in Norway and such. Two screws in a (near) vertical line, bottom attached to the top one, top one to the person I believe. Read up on it before trying it of course.
BOTTOM one goes to the person. Tying in to the top one makes for a very non-equalized and extending two-piece anchor. Bad. |
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By Princess Mia
From Vail
Apr 7, 2012
| Hello people....... sure the two screws may be good but why not follow the golden rule of anchor building and make it truly EQUALIZED.
Really, a simple cordolette (which we all have in this day and age) would make this anchor sooooo much better. Just follow the ERNEST rule.
As an avid ice climber I have seen worse, and this setup is possibly ok, but why.......... |
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By Derek Doucet
Apr 7, 2012
| jnrose5 wrote: A buddy of mine sent this picture to me. It's from a New Zealand Alpine Club publication. I don't know too much about it other than that. Imagine you're seconding a pitch of ice, and you arrive at an anchor looking like this. Would you be worried? What issues might you have with this set up? I actually think it's probably better than it looks. The axes are sunk in to the hilt, and are probably only slightly more likely to pull than the screws. Two-screw anchors are pretty much the norm, so this is actually MORE secure, right? Also, if the axes pulled, they'd "only" fall a few feet. Bottom line: I'm not inspired by it, but I've climbed on worse.
That's a quick, gear-efficient, and bombproof (assuming the screws are good) set-up. As others have mentioned, some vertical separation would be nice between the screws, but that aside, there is nothing wrong with this method, and lots of things right about it. I'd be perfectly happy to arrive at that stance. |
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By Derek Doucet
Apr 7, 2012
| Mia Tucholke wrote: Hello people....... sure the two screws may be good but why not follow the golden rule of anchor building and make it truly EQUALIZED. Really, a simple cordolette (which we all have in this day and age) would make this anchor sooooo much better. Just follow the ERNEST rule. As an avid ice climber I have seen worse, and this setup is possibly ok, but why..........
Rigging this anchor with a traditional "pre-equalized" cordalette would do nothing to improve on the psuedo-equalization achieved with the OPs set-up. All it would do is complicate things with no appreciable benefit, unless the same leader who led the preceeding pitch is to lead the next. In that case, an anchor not involving the rope would facilitate a marginally quicker transition, but for a competent team with three spare carabiners and modern screws with 2 clipping points on the hangers, even that advantage is minimal... |
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