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Hypertrophy and Max Recruitment
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By Will S
From Joshua Tree
Jan 13, 2012

Eric Heiden wrote:
Similarly, any subjective (or close to subjective) measurements for when to start doing downward campus exercises?


I am far from an expert on campusing...with that in mind:

I got to the point I could do skip-2 up ladders on the smallest rungs before I started trying to add doubles going up or any downward moves.

Doing negatives typically has people just dropping a rung or two with both hands (or halfway down the board if you're Steven Jeffrey). For me, it requires a ton of coordination to catch the rung evenly. I have a little lumbar scoliosis that affects my posture generally, and that's a factor for me, so I find that the drops always load one hand way more than the other (and it's the always the same hand for me). It feels dangerous, but that might not be the case for other people.

One thing that feels like a sort of first step transition or intermediate exercise from pure up to pure down movements is to do touches that come partway back down. For example, if I'm doing touches say left hand going 1-4-1, try going 1-4-3-4-3-1 or 1-4-3-4-2-1. But I think you said you're already doing these...I'd move that exercise to smaller rungs before adding regular negs.


Doubles going up (i.e. both hands off the board at once) as simple ladders (1-2-3-4etc) might be the next step, then maybe doubles at skip-1 (1-3-5-etc). Then maybe negative ladders 4-3-2etc, negative skip-1 and so on.

One issue I've not heard others talk about when doing doubles is how it eats your tips. I've gotten blisters on the very ends of my tips from catching doubles going up because they rake the board as I latch the hold.


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By Monomaniac
Administrator
From Morrison, CO
Jan 13, 2012
Insurrection, 5.14c.  Photo Adam Sanders.

Will S wrote:
I've gotten blisters on the very ends of my tips from catching doubles going up because they rake the board as I latch the hold.


Part of the goal in campusing is to train your accuracy. I would consider trying some smaller movements in the short term to see if you can improve your accuracy and do the moves with more control before moving on to bigger moves. I get plenty of discomfort in my tips, but I think if you're getting blisters you're either to wild or your sessions are too long.


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By Monomaniac
Administrator
From Morrison, CO
Jan 13, 2012
Insurrection, 5.14c.  Photo Adam Sanders.

Eric Heiden wrote:
Does anyone have thoughts on good/possibly subjective criteria on when to move from campus workouts from large rungs to mediums rungs to small rungs? Similarly, any subjective (or close to subjective) measurements for when to start doing downward campus exercises?


This is one of those "what are you training for?" situations. If you're training for big moves between big holds, then the larger rungs make sense. If you're physically capable of using the smallest rungs, I would recommend spending most of your effort on them. At this point I only do one warmup set on the medium metolius rungs, then do almost everything else on the small rungs. In my experience, most of the time when you're making big crux moves the holds are pretty small. Usually when there are big hand holds there are also big foot holds. The bigger rungs can be really helpful in developing the basic coordination & movement, but once you have that figured out I think you'll get more practical benefit from making smaller moves between smaller rungs.

For someone who isn't hiking the large & medium rungs, I would guess they would see more short term improvement focusing on other areas, but I think there is value in training all areas in preparation for the day when you really will benefit from more focused campus training. But there is a real danger that getting really good at campusing while neglecting your footwork could actually hurt your overall progress, so that's something to be aware of.


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By Eric Heiden
From Derry, NH
Jan 13, 2012

Monomaniac wrote:
For someone who isn't hiking the large & medium rungs, I would guess they would see more short term improvement focusing on other areas... ...there is a real danger that getting really good at campusing while neglecting your footwork could actually hurt your overall progress, so that's something to be aware of.


I agree that neglecting technique in favor of training campusing power is a bad idea, but why would not being able to hike medium metolius campus rungs be an indicator that my technique isn't any good? If I climbed with great technique I might never (or much less often) need to do more dynamic campus style moves and therefore need to start out on the larger rungs. So the limitations of finger strength and power can make me "thrutchier" and prevent me from executing with the exacting technique that I'd desire. I've heard it said, and agree that some degree this is true - that the key to impeccable technique is to get really strong fingers. While I know that finger strength in this plan is really developed with hangboarding I don't know that having super strong fingers and good technique will necessarily prepare me to easily hike large campusing rungs.


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By Monomaniac
Administrator
From Morrison, CO
Jan 13, 2012
Insurrection, 5.14c.  Photo Adam Sanders.

Eric Heiden wrote:
...why would not being able to hike medium metolius campus rungs be an indicator that my technique isn't any good?


It may not be. It could indicate you are overweight, overly timid, suffering from an injury, etc. But it is an indicator that there is some other weakness that, once addressed, will result in more significant gains than campus training.

Imagine a person that can't manage a simple ladder on the small rungs. How hard is that person climbing on real rock? When they get shutdown on a route, is it because they can't do a 2 foot dyno between 2" edges? Very unlikely. They may perceive that as the problem, but the true problem is more likely, they don't know how to heel hook, they don't trust their feet when smearing, lack the flexibility to do a high step, or are intimidated by the fall potential, etc.


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By Mike Anderson
From Dayton, OH
Jan 13, 2012

Besides warming up, the only thing I use big/medium rungs for is 2-finger campusing. Everything else is done on the smallest rungs.

Will - re blisters on your fingers, what's the texture of your wall? I recommend "A" quality sanded birch plywood.


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By Rob Duncan
From Salt Lake City
Jan 13, 2012

the Anderson brothers should have a 'donation' link. a wealth of information and timely responses- very generous of you two!


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By JohnWesely
From Red River Gorge
Jan 13, 2012
Gunking

Mike Anderson wrote:
Besides warming up, the only thing I use big/medium rungs for is 2-finger campusing. Everything else is done on the smallest rungs. Will - re blisters on your fingers, what's the texture of your wall? I recommend "A" quality sanded birch plywood.


How big are the small rungs, just for reference.


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By RyanJohnson
From Tucson, Arizona
Jan 13, 2012

JohnWesely wrote:
How big are the small rungs, just for reference.

3/4" (19 mm) thick


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By Eric Heiden
From Derry, NH
Jan 13, 2012

Monomaniac wrote:
It may not be. It could indicate you are overweight, overly timid, suffering from an injury, etc. But it is an indicator that there is some other weakness that, once addressed, will result in more significant gains than campus training. Imagine a person that can't manage a simple ladder on the small rungs. How hard is that person climbing on real rock? When they get shutdown on a route, is it because they can't do a 2 foot dyno between 2" edges? Very unlikely. They may perceive that as the problem, but the true problem is more likely, they don't know how to heel hook, they don't trust their feet when smearing, lack the flexibility to do a high step, or are intimidated by the fall potential, etc.


I understand your point. So then for my particular situation - I just finished 5 weeks of HYP (hangboarding and bouldering because the weather was too good to pass up). I will be honest and admit that I did more bouldering than hangboarding near the end of the cycle (the last 2 & 1/2 weeks or so especially). Now I've started the Max Rec. phase and - like I've discussed - am able to campus up the medium rungs, but it's a fair amount of effort just to do a simple ladder up them. I'm not overweight (165 lbs at 6'1"), and I think my biggest reason for falling off of routes is finger strength. While I've climbed a handful of v5's and a single (sloper) v6, small holds definitely hold me back, and always have.

So would it be more beneficial for me to replace the remainder of my power phase with more dedicated hangboarding and then move straight into a power endurance phase?


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By Will S
From Joshua Tree
Feb 2, 2012

Monomaniac wrote:
1-7-13 (small metolius rungs, 4" spacing).



Just wanted to revisit this one since I had the first campus workout of the phase last night. Our spacing is 6", so our equivalent of Mono's 1-7-13 is 1-5-9. I was suprised at being able to go 1-5 but it was fully limit for me, to the point I couldn't even catch it with 4 fingers only 3. Of course there was no way I could then pull the 5-9...as said above the second move is way harder since you're essentially pulling one-armed. So I did "touch" repeaters at 1-5 on a couple of sets. This is on the small rungs.

Doubles on the mediums went much better as well. A little soreness but no raking or borderline blisters on the tips. Was able to do skip-1 doubles (1-3-5etc) up and drop-1s (5-4-3etc) back down on that set. I think it was mostly confidence and a little better coordination.

Now if I could just get the gym to rebuild the bottom section of the board where it goes undercut so it doesn't eat all the skin off my knees and quads, I'd be a happy camper. I even duct taped the crap out of the bottom edge to try to mitigate the skin eating edge, helped a bit but I still look like I took a spill off the road bike or something.

Hope all you dudes' campus work is going well, seems like there are a bunch of us on roughly the same timeline phase-wise. I'm usually a little indifferent when the campus workouts come up, but last night I was psyched and seeing good progress from the last phase just adds to the psych.

Stay thirsty my friends.


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