Login with Facebook
 ADVANCED
How to coil rope "in slings" for rappels
View Latest Posts in This Forum or All Forums
   Page 1 of 1.  
Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
 
 
By Luke to Zuke
From Anchorage
Oct 25, 2010
Middle Troll
I've seen it once, and dared not try it.
BUT does anyone know how to coil your rope and set it in slings on the sides of your harness so it'll take rope as you rappel-KEY-- without making a mess.?

Any pics?
sketches?

FLAG
By Perin Blanchard
Administrator
From Orem, UT
Oct 25, 2010
Racking too much gear, as usual.
Butterfly coil each side of the rope and clip each coiled side to your left and right front gear loops, each with a doubled-over standard-length sling.

Usually feeds well, but watch on the way down so that if a coil loops around others while it's pulling out you can fix it before it gets out of hand.

FLAG
By Kevin Stricker
From Evergreen, CO
Oct 25, 2010
The general idea is to stack the rope in butterfly coils that start big and end small. Pass a sling around the whole bunch and clip both ends of the sling into your belay loop(or one of your gear loops). Theoretically now as you descend the loops feed out and you don't have any tangles. The problem is that usually when you need to use this technique you are going to have winds that are going to mess things up.
I prefer to stack the rope if possible in a backpack and hang the pack from your harness.

FLAG
By JFK
From San Diego, CA
Oct 26, 2010
halloween 08.  Creepy Uncle
Or you can just back your rappel up with a prusik, toss the rope over, rap, and untangle anything on the way down with your two free hands (being backed up). Am I crazy? When would it be vital to have all the rope with you feeding it out during a rappel?

FLAG
By Greg D
From Here
Oct 26, 2010
Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W.
JFK wrote:
Or you can just back your rappel up with a prusik, toss the rope over, rap, and untangle anything on the way down with your two free hands (being backed up). Am I crazy? When would it be vital to have all the rope with you feeding it out during a rappel?


Really bad idea. Slow and cumbersome. Major tangles, possible snags. Much worse in high winds.

But, I do have a way that requires no slings and works 100% of the time in no winds and high winds. I do it on single pitch and multi pitch, no matter what the weather. That way it is second nature. And never fails.

FLAG
By Erik W
From Bay Area, CA
Oct 26, 2010
North face of Ama Dablam - taken on approach to Ko...
As the above folks stated, butterfly coil on each side, hung via a doubled-up sling. To make the system run smoother, extend your belay device away from your harness... makes a big difference. Use one hand to brake, and the other to manage what is going on with the coils. And don't forget your autoblok in this setup.

As Kevin noted, the times when you use this technique is when it's blowing something fierce, so realize that the coils will clusterfuq themselves eventually. The main benefit of the saddlebag technique is to keep the ropes from streaming horizontal from you and getting snagged on some flake 100ft around the corner where it will be an uber-bitch to try to free them. Using a pack as a rope bag is a great solution as well, especially given that in these situations you are most likely already wearing everything that was in your pack to begin with - so it should have some room.

Practice at a local crag a couple times under perfect conditions, that's the best advice I can give.

FLAG
By Brian Snider
From NorCal
Oct 26, 2010
Me
JFK wrote:
When would it be vital to have all the rope with you feeding it out during a rappel?
When your a ninja.

FLAG
By Jay D.
From The Corner Office
Oct 26, 2010
Trees.  Yes, trees.
In high winds, I tie a fig 8 in the non-anchored end and clip it to my harness. that gives me a 100 foot loop. I then take and lower the remaining bight of line over the edge. If it is horrible winds sometimes its easier to half the rope again and clip it to the harness. In hurricane winds, it gets stacked in my pack and goes out from there.

FLAG
 
By Perin Blanchard
Administrator
From Orem, UT
Oct 26, 2010
Racking too much gear, as usual.
JFK wrote:
When would it be vital to have all the rope with you feeding it out during a rappel?


I use the "holster" method in three situations:

  • High winds.
  • To avoid throwing my rope onto leaders below when the descent for a popular route is to rappel the route.
  • While cleaning loose stuff.

FLAG
By Jason Halladay
Administrator
From Los Alamos, NM
Oct 26, 2010
Climbing at the Belvedere crag near Nago with a gr...
Perin Blanchard wrote:
I use the "holster" method in three situations: *High winds. *To avoid throwing my rope onto leaders below when the descent for a popular route is to rappel the route. *While cleaning loose stuff.


For sure. Another method is to feed the rope through the anchor and lower your partner down. The partner can take the extra rope down with them or, at least, you'll only have about half the rope (the slack half after your partner is down at the next anchor) to holster with you as you rap down to her/him.
Indeed lowering your partner places extra wear on the anchor hardware so this may not be the most popular way to go but in super high winds or on heavily trafficked routes such as Crimson Chrysalis where you're rapping down on others. This is nice and friendly.

FLAG
By Buff Johnson
Oct 26, 2010
smiley face
Here's a pic. My coils are a little too big, but this is the idea.


If only the rest of my life were this organized.
If only the rest of my life were this organized.

FLAG
By claramie
From Boulder, CO
Oct 26, 2010
Should I be trying this hard on a warmup?  photo b...
Greg D wrote:
But, I do have a way that requires no slings and works 100% of the time in no winds and high winds. I do it on single pitch and multi pitch, no matter what the weather. That way it is second nature. And never fails.


C'mon Greg, don't hold out! What's the other method besides butterfly coils, stacking in a bag or lowering your partner so they can fix to the next anchor? Educate us please...

Cheers,
Clayton

FLAG
By Greg D
From Here
Oct 26, 2010
Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W.
1. While threading the rap anchor make a tight bundle about the size of a basketball (no bigger) making a circular coil (not butterfly cause they tend to cluster frig). I do 13 coils.
2. Make your 14 th coil into a bite (sp) and pass thru middle of bundle to make one side of "bunny ears". On other side of coil make another "bunny ear" with rope comming from first bunny ear and tie into overhand. Clip both ears from overhand to your harness. This makes a compact wind resistant bomb that will carry down very well even in modest winds. It will pop open at the last second. And voilą.

This is the foundation for the technique. It is very quick and simple once you have done it a few times. What you will do next will depend on the terrain and winds.

One example: hanging belay. Modest winds.
Make your first basketball sized bundle and clip to your harness. Continue pulling rope through anchor allowing it to descend down the rap line till you reach the middle mark. Your partner should be doing the same thing with the other side of the rope. Then clipping that bundle to you. Start to rappel. When you are running out of rope drop the bundles. Important: be sure to have 15 or 20 feet of slack to the bundle so that it can gain momentum as a bundle. This will help it to carry down the plumb line and will be necessary to pop the knot.

In high winds just make two bundles on each side of the middle mark.

Make sense?

FLAG
By claramie
From Boulder, CO
Oct 27, 2010
Should I be trying this hard on a warmup?  photo b...
Greg,

I think I get it but one question... the coils start from the end of the rope or from the mid-point side of the rope? I'm thinking the bight is near the end of the line (if the bight is near the mid-point then you'd have to release it early on to gekeep rapping)?

If it's not too much trouble, a picture is worth a thousand words. I'm a visual learner. If not, I can go play with it myself. Sounds like a good system that doesn't eat up extra gear and butterflys often get all jacked up in the wind.

Cheers!
Clayton

FLAG
By Greg D
From Here
Oct 27, 2010
Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W.
Yes the bundle gets made starting with the rope end. I will try to post pics tonight.

FLAG
By Greg D
From Here
Oct 28, 2010
Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W.
pull rope through anchor
pull rope through anchor

make 13 "round" coils (not butterfly).  ...
make 13 "round" coils (not butterfly). then a bight. sub your hand for door knob

push bight through "donut" hole
push bight through "donut" hole

--- Invalid image id: 106940894 ---
make other bunny ear
make other bunny ear

tie bunny ears into overhand
tie bunny ears into overhand

FLAG
 
By claramie
From Boulder, CO
Oct 28, 2010
Should I be trying this hard on a warmup?  photo b...
Thanks man! That looks like a great trick. I will give it a try.

Cheers.
Clayton

FLAG
By Kurt Ross
From Boulder, colorado
Nov 1, 2010
Every single day.
I would never rappel off of a door hinge.

FLAG
By Dustin B
From Steamboat
Dec 1, 2010
It's always a party.
The proper term for this one is "the greg flail knot" and it was developed over a few summers of untangling messes while hanging from ropes in the wind and rain.

This is actually a great setup, as you can take the bundles with you and drop them individually, or you can throw the bundles which should undo themselves when they take their weight, giving you much more accuracy especially in the wind. This is how i usually rap when the rappel isn't straight forward or its windy.

FLAG
By andrewc
Jun 16, 2011
I just wanted to say that I've been using this technique (the one illustrated by greg) this year and am totally sold on it.

It put an end to the rope getting stuck on a ledge 20 feet down, getting immediately tangled in manzanita bushes, and other clusters.

It worked the first time I tried it and is a great time saver.
I'm not sure that that coiling in slings has many advantages over this, except maybe rappeling through trees.

Thanks to those that figured this out.

FLAG
By bearbreeder
Jun 17, 2011
flake over the extended sling that you are using to extend yr atc off ...

loops are easier to balance and less likely to fall off ... and if they get tangled at least its in front of you

FLAG
By Bartlett Jeff
Jun 17, 2011
"when would it be vital to have the rope with you on rappel?"

When you're rappelling down Brit sea cliffs where the rope could get tangled under water; there is also a great climb near Squamish --Star Chek, 5.9-- which you rappel down to just above Serious river whitewater-- a rope falling in here could be unretrievably tangled in the rocks leaving you stranded.

FLAG
By Eli Helmuth
From Estes Park, CO
Jun 17, 2011
Eli on the FA of Grizzly (M9) at the Den.
For sure a key method in high wind rappelling in places like RMNP or Patagonia, etc.
100' loop below would go sideways and hook around something that you won't get to, or the rope back from. Coils on the side are tedious and tend to tangle.
I've had great success in those environments with stacking the rope in the pack to feed out or using a stuff sack on each hip with the rope stacked (not coiled) inside- feeds nice.

FLAG
By OReid
From Denver, CO
Jun 17, 2011
preparing to rap over a crevasse; Mt. Waddington, ...
I pretty much always rappel with a holstered rope. Once you're in practice, it's very fast and efficient. Plus it's a bit safer. I wrote a little article on this topic a few years back, and recently re-posted it. I'd never seen anyone do this type of thing before, so I sort of made it all up as I went along. Perhaps some will find it useful: goacrophile.blogspot.com/2011/...

FLAG
 
By andrewc
Jun 17, 2011
OReid wrote:
I pretty much always rappel with a holstered rope. Once you're in practice, it's very fast and efficient. Plus it's a bit safer. I wrote a little article on this topic a few years back, and recently re-posted it. I'd never seen anyone do this type of thing before, so I sort of made it all up as I went along. Perhaps some will find it useful:


I think your explanation is a lot clearer than I've seen before.

The big difference you have is that you coil both sides together. When I've tried it before it always ends up being a cluster with the rope on both sides.

Stacking the rope in your backpack is great but I rarely have a backpack on large enough to stash the whole rope.

FLAG
By Bang
From Charlottesville, VA
Jun 17, 2011
Thanks Hank Caylor!
wellsphere.com/rock-climbing-a...

FLAG


Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
Page 1 of 1.