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How long does a pitch take?

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Mathias · · Loveland, CO · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 306

And "how long is a piece of string?"

I'm not a fast leader, but I'm hoping to improve that in time. I led two full rope lengths this weekend and they both took me about an hour each. That's not for us both, that's just me leading and building an anchor. Both pitches were close to my mental limit, in part because I was route finding as I went. But it still seems far too long.

I'm looking for input as to what sort of time I should be looking to achieve. What sort of time do you average for a pitch close to your trad leading limit?

David House · · Boulder, CO · Joined Nov 2001 · Points: 453

It obviously varies quite a bit but I plan on an hour a pitch to lead, set a belay and have the second break down their belay, follow and clean for a pitch of trad at the upper end of my on sight ability. A bit less for sport.

Tylerpratt · · Litchfield, Connecticut · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 40

So subjective. Some trad routes that are 70 feet can take a very long time if they have very good rests and are very difficult, you can expect to sit at the rest until your pump is literally 100% gone. In another case a route might have 0 rests and in such case its a race against the pump so move your ass as fast as you can.

a pitch can take ten minutes or two hours...

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Mathias wrote:And "how long is a piece of string?" I'm not a fast leader, but I'm hoping to improve that in time. I led two full rope lengths this weekend and they both took me about an hour each. That's not for us both, that's just me leading and building an anchor. Both pitches were close to my mental limit, in part because I was route finding as I went. But it still seems far too long. I'm looking for input as to what sort of time I should be looking to achieve. What sort of time do you average for a pitch close to your trad leading limit?
It takes as long as it takes. That can be 15 minutes or 4 hours. Or more.
JeffL · · Salt Lake City · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 65

4 minutes, 28 seconds per pitch for Hans Florine and Alex Honnold on the Nose speed record. That's not per person, either. 80% of the route was casual and they had each been on the route several times before.
So that's the fast side of things.

The more you climb, the better you'll get, faster too. I average 500 feet per hour when simul climbing. When pitching things out I typically expect 30 min per pitch(about 18 to lead, 12 to follow) on routes 5.10 or easier. But that is with an equal partner, only exchanging gear for 60 to 90 seconds at the anchor. If it's a bolted anchor, I'll be off belay a ready to pull up rope within 40 seconds of reaching the anchor. Gear anchor... Depends on the situation.

Now when the pro gets tricky, or the climbing is hard enough to require me to find and milk rest stances, a pitch will take longer. Especially at altitude or with loose rock. Takes longer if route finding is tricky or the footholds are tiny/slabby.

Consider using video or a stop watch to figure out how long each aspect is taking you. Did your belay anchors take more than 5 minutes? Watch the video and figure out why. Same with gear exchange. If you can clip cams and slings directly to your partners harness, exactly how he/she likes them racked, you will save time. Your partner can be doing something else.

Lastly, take the extra time to learn rope management. If you mess it up and need to fix a tangle or your leader needs to stop mid pitch, you're doing it wrong.

doug rouse · · Denver, CO. · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 660

Not really a question that has a "correct" answer...The Naked Edge has been done in like 20-minutes, and it has 5-pitches, and a very long approach pitch...
Don't let time spent on a pitch dissuade you from leading or something.. Take the time it takes, and don't rush...that's when you start to forget things, and you'll spend more time digging out of an epic!

Benjamin Chapman · · Small Town, USA · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 18,818

4:25 (Better than 4:28/pitch)
youtube.com/watch?v=7ADOK6L…

Nick Drake · · Kent, WA · Joined Jan 2015 · Points: 651

How many pieces did you place and what type of route? Personally, if it's a chimney it will take a while, slab same thing. If it's a hand crack I'll be cruising, the pro places fast and easy.

If you're getting into gear that's tips and below it's a lot harder (for me) to just eyeball the piece. Those pitches take longer.

How much gear did you place on this lead?

Also I'd consider building your anchor/swapping leads separately from the time it takes to actually lead the pitch.

Mathias · · Loveland, CO · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 306

Wow! Thanks for the replies everyone.

So to try and answer all the questions:

The route was on McGregor Slab, Fall River Road, Estes Park. It wasn't our intention to climb this route when we left the house, we were headed to Lumpy, but it was packed. So I had no guidebook. But as I'd researched the routes a little previously I decided we'd be okay with the MP guide. We were aiming to do the first few pitches of Indirect and or Climbing with the Camel Man, and then traverse off to the walk off. Unfortunately, one of those routes isn't on MP and the other has a different starting point description than the guide. But I've read on MP and in the guide that a topo isn't much help and you're hard pressed to find anything harder than 5.8 unless you try. We may have hit a little 5.8, but only a move or two I think.

So yeah, it's slab, dihedrals, and a little slabby crack climbing. I had an idea of where I wanted the first two belays and I made those work pretty well. The first pitch was just over 60m and I'd guess I placed 13-14 pieces. We had a slight rain shower whilst I was on a particularly slick section of rock and that slowed me down a bit. Deciding on the first belay spot took a little time and I decided to down climb to a tree rather than stretch the rope. The second pitch was an actual rope stretcher. I was pulling hard to get cloved in. I used 17 pieces on that one, plus 2 that I back-cleaned because the next piece was close and far more solid. Those two I only placed to get me through the moves without risking ledge falls. I constructed the second belay anchor pretty quickly.

I'm a little out of practice with gear as I haven't trad climbed as much as I'd like recently. Not all of my placements were right first time but I ade sure they were all solid. I didn't know the exact route but I was trying to keep it safe whilst challenging enough to be fun.

I'd anticipated about 1hr to 1hr15min for a full pitch (lead, anchor, and follow), but we ended up with about 1hr30min and 1hr45min. Just doesn't seem fast enough.

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion · · Colorado · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 35

How long is a string?

Rick Blair · · Denver · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 266

Learn to aid climb. Free climbing pitches will seem super fast after that.

David House · · Boulder, CO · Joined Nov 2001 · Points: 453

Haha, given the length of the pitches, the route finding and the rain I would say you did pretty well! My suggestion would be to do a long, multi-pitch trad route every weekend for the rest of the Summer, by fall you will be much faster. Confidence is a big factor.

Mathias · · Loveland, CO · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 306
David Hous wrote:Haha, given the length of the pitches, the route finding and the rain I would say you did pretty well! My suggestion would be to do a long, multi-pitch trad route every weekend for the rest of the Summer, by fall you will be much faster. Confidence is a big factor.
Thanks David. All in all it was a great day! My focus may be a little too much on the negative stuff, but that's how I figure out how to improve. I can only hope we do get on a long multipitch every weekend. That's the goal.
christoph benells · · tahoma · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 306

i feel like the most time is taken up setting up overly complicated belays.

You can't really control how fast you can climb a pitch, you can only get better at climbing which isn't going to happen overnight. Even then, your going to be climbing harder routes so will take a lot of time still...

10 minutes to set up a top belay is way too long. Should only take a couple of minutes, if that. If it is a bolted station should take maybe 30 seconds.

Simplify your rack and what you carry.

I think 30mins to 1 hour per pitch seems pretty normal. Key is to move fast when you can.

Bill M · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 317

You can improve on an hour a pitch pretty easy. You are young, strong and have a steady partner. I budget about 30 min / pitch for both myself and my regular partner for 5.8 and below. About 45 min for 5.9 and an hour for 5.10a/b. I expect you could get there too with a little fine tuning. Here is what I do.

I carry a double rack of BD cams from 0.5 to 2 and a #3, Two #2, #3 Mastercams and 1 each of the #0 and #1 Mastecams, a set of BD stoppers from 5-13 and a set of DMM ofsets. I add/take away as needed, e.g. maybe some small brass for selected climbs in Eldo and of course #4 and larger cams if people say they are needed. Keep those hexes and tricams at home, except maybe the little pink one if feel you really have to carry one.

That is big rack, so I push all the stuff I don't expect to need on the next pitch to back of my harness; that way my rack is slim and I can quickly find what I need. If I need to "reload" from the stash on the back of my harness I do it at rest stances. I think this saves me time, because I usually have the optimal piece and don't make a career tying to find good placements with the slim picking off what is left on a single rack.

If I find myself scratching my head about how to do a move I have no problem yarding up on my gear.

My partners and I clean up as we second. All stoppers on a single biner, all trad draws off the gear they were clipped to. All cams on a biner clipped to a sling. That way when we get to belay it's as simple as handing a sling to my partner and clipping a few draws on their harness.

I like to climb in blocks, suiting the strengths of the team. So typically, if I led the previous pitch, I will be leading the next. So, the person seconding pulls up and stops just below me at the belay. I clove them in, have them check it and take then off belay, while they are clipping gear on my harness. They put me on, I grab the sling with gear and off I go. Two min tops.

I eat while belaying from the top and expect my partner to as well. I prefer to belay the 2nd using a grigri or an atc in guide for that reason. If I am using the grigri I tie a quick stopper knot in the rope before I go hands off. I try to always carry a hydration bag in a small backpack - even leading - so I can drink as I go.

When setting up a belay, after the first good piece goes in I call off belay and finish up the anchor. If I am seconding as soon as you yell off belay I start tearing down the anchor leaving myself clipped to best piece.

Unless I know exactly where the next belay is I start looking for good places after 1/2 the rope is used up. Stretching pitches an extra 40 feet only to spend that time dealing with a poor belay does not save time in the long run.

I keep a watch in my pocket and look at it from time to time.

Repeat routes from time to time. That will give you a good reference for improvements.

christoph benells · · tahoma · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 306
Bill M wrote: Unless I know exactly where the next belay is I start looking for good places after 1/2 the rope is used up. Stretching pitches an extra 40 feet only to spend that time dealing with a poor belay does not save time in the long run.
this is a good point.
Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

I feel like pitches go much faster if A, I don't flake the rope over again at the top of every single pitch. B, the follower has all the gear that was cleaned on a sling to give to the leader and C, leading in big blocks.

Edit: I can't believe I didn't read everything posted and wrote the same thing as someone else. I know I know the answer me me me me..

will ar · · Vermont · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 290
Bill M wrote: My partners and I clean up as we second. All stoppers on a single biner, all trad draws off the gear they were clipped to. All cams on and biners on a sling. That way when we get to belay it's as simple as handing a sling to my partner and clipping a few draws on their harness.
I usually do it this way on easy/moderate terrain. As a follower it's usually not too hard to get a good stance to re-rack stuff. Sometimes when you're moving fast on easy terrain and the leader didn't place much gear it's also nice to have an excuse to stop for a few seconds and catch your breath. As the terrain becomes more difficulty I'm more likely to just throw stuff haphazardly on a sling and straighten it out when I'm hands free at the belay.

As for handing off gear- it's become really popular to rack gear on your harness and this is usually what I do on harder single pitch climbs. On multipitch it's much easier to swap gear at belays if you have most or all of your gear on a gear sling. While it may not be as streamlined as racking on your harness you are ideally on terrain that you can reasonably onsight so it shouldn't be too difficult to dig through all the gear on a gear sling. If you aren't using a sling make sure you and your partner both understand each other's racking system and don't hand gear to your partner, put it directly on his/her harness.

Blocks vs swinging leads-
-easy routes in warm weather with two equal partners I'll often swing leads
-nothing sucks like following a demanding pitch only to have to jump right back on lead, when it gets harder I usually block it out
-winter climbs or a rock route early/late season-swapping leads results in one person standing still while the other climbs two pitches. This always seems to leave one person shivering at the belay or the other getting cold fingers.
Bill M · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 317
will ar wrote: As the terrain becomes more difficulty I'm more likely to just throw stuff haphazardly on a sling and straighten it out when I'm hands free at the belay.
My advice is based on my typical multi-pitch target which is 1-2 grades easier than what I can lead single pitch trad/sport. At my limit, I am lucky to get to the top without a piece or two still dangling, clipped to the rope in front of me :)
ClimbLikeAGirl · · Keene Valley · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 15

My partner and I swing leads on most routes. At our best, we've climbed 1 pitch in about 30 minutes, from leader taking off to follower getting to the anchor and re-racking. Keep in mind, this was in Red Rocks, with two-bolt anchors at the end of every pitch. I'd add 10-15 minutes for building an anchor and another 5-15 if there is only one dedicated leader (accounting mostly for mental fatigue over the course of the route).

Mathias · · Loveland, CO · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 306

Some good thoughts there!

I have adopted the cleaning sling idea from previous conversations, so I sort all the gear as I follow. My wife does things her own way, which still works. She gets the pitch done a little quicker and then organizes at the belay. I'd love to use a full gear sling to make transferringtge rack quicker, but she doesn't like them so I generally put the small and medium cams on a sling.

I was really wishing I'd brought more draws and my second set of cams, and in this case left the hexes at home. Although the tricams made the second belay much easier than it would have been with cams.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Trad Climbing
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