By chuck claude From Flagstaff, Az May 3, 2010
| That is why Arno is good. His point of view is analyze the rational risks, being honest and objective. He points out there are times that a risk for a particular moment in your life (whatever the variety of reasons), may be a bad decision to continue, and to back away and don't question the decision. There are other times if you dissect the problem, the decision about continuing is rational. Often on easier climbs falling is a rational fear. The objective hazards, ledges, corners large holds, where you can break an ankle/leg/hip/ have head injuries....are real. On the harder climbs the lines tend to be cleaner (sort of an unfair situation, when you are just starting out you need to deal with the hazards, but when you have the experience to deal with them, that particular risk decreases). Assuming that your are experienced with gear and the route is condusive to it, falling on gear is not a big thing. Personally I'm not a huge fan of taking wingers but its just part of the game. Remember, falling is a consequence of a decision process. You control the actions, but not the consequences. So the only way not to fall is not to climb. |  FLAG |
By stredna From PA May 3, 2010
| i never practiced falling, but this guy i heard of did, Dan something...i think hes dead. |  FLAG |
By Robert D. From Boulder, CO May 3, 2010
| If you want to push yourself to your limits, then falling is going to be a necessary part of your climbing. Practicing falling will not only help your mental game, it will make you a safer climber as well. Practicing falling allows you to improve your falling technique, which allows you to fall more safely. Look at other sports where falling poorly is potentially very hazardous, (e.g. judo, ice skating, gymnastics) these athletes are all taught how to fall safely. Climbing should be no different. |  FLAG |
By Josh Olson From madison, wisconsin May 3, 2010
| Sorry, next time I'll remind everyone not to be an idiot. Don't fall to the deck, that would hurt. Don't fall onto a ledge. When you take a fall, don't start with massive whippers, that's asking for trouble. How do you "anti-fallers" expect anyone to learn how to fall? Falling is a skill, believe it or not, and must be practiced accordingly. It's to bad your friend broke her ankle, but stuff happens. Climbing is an inherently dangerous sport, so stuff happens. |  FLAG |
By ryan dillon From Tucson, AZ. May 3, 2010
| You'll always question your gear until you have fallen on it once or twice. Darren B.- keep at it and the fear with subside a little at a time. Especially with an ol' crusty mentor guiding you along. |  FLAG |
By Pete Hickman From Tacoma, WA May 3, 2010
| Another approach you can take is to push away everything that is good in your life until you have nothing left that you care about. Then, you will notice a refreshingly calm feeling when you are high on the rock because there is no longer anything good down there that you desperately want to make it back to. If you make life on the ground utterly miserable, climbing high will make you feel better, not worse. |  FLAG |
By Darren B. From Asheville, NC May 3, 2010
| Like so much about climbing (and life), differing perspectives provide differing insights. Since most of the climbs I work today are relatively simple, the falls I'd take would be skin peeling, fingerprint burning affairs. I'm certain I don't have the ability right now to push back from the rock enough for my gear to catch me in a clean manner. I like the idea of learning to trust gear in a gym, but I also know that there's no safe way to recreate the terror I'll feel when I unexpectedly fall, and how I deal with that shock will determine my rate of growth as a climber. With each climb, I am learning to trust my gear, and that has helped me reduce my overall level of fear, enabling me to focus more on reading rock, climbing efficiently, and breathing deeply. It's only a matter of time till that first fall happens, and then I'll be past yet another climbing milestone. db |  FLAG |
By ShibbyShane From Estes Park, CO May 3, 2010
| Pete Hickman wrote: Another approach you can take is to push away everything that is good in your life until you have nothing left that you care about. Then, you will notice a refreshingly calm feeling when you are high on the rock because there is no longer anything good down there that you desperately want to make it back to. If you make life on the ground utterly miserable, climbing high will make you feel better, not worse. I like it. |  FLAG |
By matthewWallace From plymouth, nh May 3, 2010
| Josh Olson wrote: I'm upset nobody has mentioned this...FALL, FALL, FALL, and FALL again. In my experience, I just took a good amount of whippers in the gym, then a bunch outside. Got my head right. Get on a 5.8 or 5.9 that you are comfy with and drop. After you can take a two foot fall, make it three, then four, then ten. If you can't take a controlled fall, how are you going to take an accidental one? When following ti is not the fear of a lead fall or whipper it is more of a fear in the system. You have to learn that not matter how high or low you are the system works the same. By system I mean the workings of the rope, and gear in the rock. The best way to learn to trust this is by falling or even just hanging when you get nervous. Take lead falls, then when you are following you will be super comfortable. Just put the system to work for you and learn to trust it and you will be fine. |  FLAG |
By matthewWallace From plymouth, nh May 3, 2010
| stredna wrote: i never practiced falling, but this guy i heard of did, Dan something...i think hes dead. That is disrespectful... and completely off topic. |  FLAG |
By chuck claude From Flagstaff, Az May 3, 2010
| Darren B. wrote: Like so much about climbing (and life), differing perspectives provide differing insights. Since most of the climbs I work today are relatively simple, the falls I'd take would be skin peeling, fingerprint burning affairs. I'm certain I don't have the ability right now to push back from the rock enough for my gear to catch me in a clean manner. I like the idea of learning to trust gear in a gym, but I also know that there's no safe way to recreate the terror I'll feel when I unexpectedly fall, and how I deal with that shock will determine my rate of growth as a climber. With each climb, I am learning to trust my gear, and that has helped me reduce my overall level of fear, enabling me to focus more on reading rock, climbing efficiently, and breathing deeply. It's only a matter of time till that first fall happens, and then I'll be past yet another climbing milestone. db Actually when I fall unexpectedly, even though its on a low percentage move, there is no terror, no nothing. If its long enough there is a possibility that I may think, "wow, thats a long fall" but usually almost a blissful nothing. Its those climbs where you know you can't fall, and you know that you are about to fall, and you are fighting off the pump, trying to keep it together, those are the falls that are "less then relaxing". |  FLAG |
By Eastvillage From New York, NY May 3, 2010
| Have you tried very easy climbs? As in 5.3 - 5.5. If on easy ground you feel in control, maybe it's just a matter of time. If you try these and still are getting psyched out, maybe you do need another sport. There are plenty to choose from. |  FLAG |
By clay meier May 3, 2010
| about a year ago I broke two vertabre in a climbing ground fall. I get scared a lot more easily. I do two things now that help. 1. Smoke some "Hippy Lettuce" before I climb helps me to relax 2. When I get scared I tell myself that I am being a pussy. Come to think of it that doesnt really help it just hurts my very fragile self esteem. So I guess just stick with #1 |  FLAG |
By Scott McMahon From Boulder, CO May 3, 2010
| Eastvillage wrote: Have you tried very easy climbs? As in 5.3 - 5.5. If on easy ground you feel in control, maybe it's just a matter of time. If you try these and still are getting psyched out, maybe you do need another sport. There are plenty to choose from. That doesn't always work though...yeah, the moves are easier, but there is typically a ton of ledges etc that are more dangerous and equally scary. Broken ankles are to be avoided!! It's actually safer to fall on harder climbs (of course with exceptions). Alot of times my partner has to remind me to breath. It's amazing you don't realize you're holding your breath. |  FLAG |
By Darren B. From Asheville, NC May 10, 2010
| I was up at Table Rock this last weekend, leading my toughest climb yet. I felt that fear begin to creep in again, but I was able to use it to help me push farther up the climb this time. The debilitating nature of my fear definitely has gotten less and less the more time I spend climbing, especially lead climbing. There's something about being on the sharp end that helps me focus in a way that is different from following. |  FLAG |
By TomCaldwell From Clemson, S.C. May 10, 2010
| Darren B. wrote: I was up at Table Rock this last weekend, leading my toughest climb yet. I felt that fear begin to creep in again, but I was able to use it to help me push farther up the climb this time. The debilitating nature of my fear definitely has gotten less and less the more time I spend climbing, especially lead climbing. There's something about being on the sharp end that helps me focus in a way that is different from following. You just answered your original question. As far as falling goes, I am agreeing with Stich. Yes, you should be ok with falling, but no you should not practice falling on trad gear, especially not as a new leader. As you get better and know that all gear you are placing is solid, you can start to push harder grades where falling will become part of the game. Practicing falling is advice a sport climber would give, but even when you are clipping bolts, shit still happens. I have seen pictures on here of bolts that have ripped, so they aren't fail safe. |  FLAG |
By Chris Tucker May 10, 2010
| John Hegyes wrote: Provided the leader is competent, there is little to be scared of while following. If you think following or top roping is scary, then leading might give you a nervous breakdown. There are a few situations that expose the follower to hazard ie., traversing which can lead to swing falls but if you follow the rules and if the leader can build good anchors you don't have much to be scared of. Remember that knowledge is power. Learn how to be a safe climber. Know what to do if things go wrong. That should give you some peace. Approach it from more of an engineering standpoint maybe. Get an understanding of the rigging and the forces involved in climbing. Knowing about the strengths of materials should take a load off your mind by taking the mystique out of it. Or perhaps you're afraid of heights? I've climbed a few people like that and it's possible that climbing is not for you. A healthy dose of safety consciousness is obviously important but if your fears are so far beyond so as to be irrational you might be well advised to enjoy another sport. +1 Super exposed moves are my fear. Walking out across the plank towards the diving board on Ancient Art scared the bejeezus out of me(300ft on either side of a 25inch wide walkway). But the climb itself was great and I felt confident the whole time until then. I was recently reading through "Climbing Self Rescue" (Tyson) and there just so happens to be a picture of a guy/gal humping the diving board. I realized then that the skills I was reading about, and will soon be practicing, were the partially to blame for my fear. I remember distinctly freaking out about how will I ever get back up to my partner (who was an accomplished guide). I think I would have been less nervous had I known there were such techniques and had I also quizzed my guide on his experience and training with it. |  FLAG |
By Josh Olson From madison, wisconsin May 10, 2010
| wait, does that mean that you trust gear enough to catch you, but not enough to intentionally take a fall on? That sounds sketchy to me... |  FLAG |
By TomCaldwell From Clemson, S.C. May 13, 2010
| Josh Olson wrote: wait, does that mean that you trust gear enough to catch you, but not enough to intentionally take a fall on? That sounds sketchy to me... Where is the LNT in intentionally taking falls on gear... Your damaging the gear and rock possibly. It kind of defeats of the purpose of clean climbing with trad gear. Also a cam is a hell of a lot more expensive than a $15 quickdraw and a bolt that someone else paid to install. The "shit can happen" idea is also the reason why down climbing is probably a new trad climbers best friend. Unless I made a dead point move, I will always choose to down climb and hang-dog it or whip just to be closer to the gear and reduce the load. |  FLAG |
By Jimbo May 13, 2010
| I have to agree with Josh. Every newbie trad climber has the same fear. "I just gotta learn to trust the gear". How pray tell will one learn to trust the gear if one never actually falls on gear. Practice falls on gear are just as important as practice falls on bolts. Just back the gear up with a 2nd bomber piece just underneath it. Back in the day we used to place crap gear with good gear below it to test just how well the crap placements would hold. It always surprised us how often a bad placement actually held. |  FLAG |
By camhead From The Old Northwest May 13, 2010
| In trad climbing, you will find that there are plenty of situations in which you are doing really hard, insecure moves at your limit, with bomber gear protecting you. There are other situations in which you have little, no, or terrible gear protecting you, but it is not a huge deal, because you are not doing hard, insecure moves at your limit. The key is learning to: -know what moves are hard, insecure, and at your personal limit -know what is good or bad gear, and which situations are "do not fall" and finally, most important -making sure that you do not find yourself at your limit in a "no fall" situation. pretty simple, really. |  FLAG |
By Joe Huggins From 666 Rue le Jour-Edge City May 13, 2010
| Pete Hickman wrote: Another approach you can take is to push away everything that is good in your life until you have nothing left that you care about. Then, you will notice a refreshingly calm feeling when you are high on the rock because there is no longer anything good down there that you desperately want to make it back to. If you make life on the ground utterly miserable, climbing high will make you feel better, not worse. Ha!Exactly!... Reminds of Bogart to Hepburn in The African Queen:"Oh, I ain't worried miss, gave myself up for dead days ago". |  FLAG |
By Chris Tucker May 13, 2010
| camhead wrote: In trad climbing, you will find that there are plenty of situations in which you are doing really hard, insecure moves at your limit, with bomber gear protecting you. There are other situations in which you have little, no, or terrible gear protecting you, but it is not a huge deal, because you are not doing hard, insecure moves at your limit. The key is learning to: -know what moves are hard, insecure, and at your personal limit -know what is good or bad gear, and which situations are "do not fall" and finally, most important -making sure that you do not find yourself at your limit in a "no fall" situation. pretty simple, really. Sounds like solid advice! |  FLAG |
By Darren B. From Asheville, NC May 13, 2010
| camhead wrote: finally, most important -making sure that you do not find yourself at your limit in a "no fall" situation. pretty simple, really. This really is insightful for me. As I climb more and more, I'm unearthing the different levels of involvement, both physical and mental, and camhead's quote really helped me see falling and pushing my limits in a new light. I can now definitely see myself pushing it harder when I've got solid pro beneath me and backing off a bit when the placements might not be as bomber as I'd like. That was the point of camhead's response, right? db |  FLAG |
By chuck claude From Flagstaff, Az May 13, 2010
| camhead wrote: In trad climbing, you will find that there are plenty of situations in which you are doing really hard, insecure moves at your limit, with bomber gear protecting you. There are other situations in which you have little, no, or terrible gear protecting you, but it is not a huge deal, because you are not doing hard, insecure moves at your limit. The key is learning to: -know what moves are hard, insecure, and at your personal limit -know what is good or bad gear, and which situations are "do not fall" and finally, most important -making sure that you do not find yourself at your limit in a "no fall" situation. pretty simple, really. Good advise but there are also times where you are doing hard moves above "apparently non-existent or bad" gear but when you really analyze it, the fall is clean, it may be long , but it is safe. To understand when the fall is safe (no matter how intimidating or long it may be, and when it is unsafe, is also something that takes time to understand. |  FLAG |
|