Home climbing wall question: connecting frames

I'm in the process of building a free standing home climbing wall and would like some help. As of right now I have three frames built for 4x8 panels. What's the best way to connect these together to make a 12 ft high 8 ft wide wall? I'm making it about a 30 degree overhang and I'm worried that the stress from the weight of the wall and a climber on it would cause the wall to give/bend a lot in the connecting sections. My frames are made up of 2x6s with the studs being separated every 16". Here's a very very basic design of the structure. The black is the wall and the red are the support beams, I think I'll be using 4x4s for those.

design

I hope to make it adjustable by drilling holes spaced apart a foot or so along the side of the wall, having a removable bolt at the top of the triangle support, and then just slide the wall down and back and putting the bolt back in to create a larger overhang. Any thoughts on that design? Also, where should i place support beams to prevent side to side movement, or would an eight foot wide wall not be in danger of tilting over? First day and progress on completing the wall has gone smoothly and quickly, I'm very excited!

I have built pretty much that exact design before. I did it with 2x6's attached near the top and coming down at an angle approximately the same angle as the wall. Luckily for me I didn't need to complete the triangle because they fit up against a concrete garage wall.

Attach to the wall using 2 lag bolts per connection instead of screws. I reinforced this section.

Somehow you will have to connect the triangle and instead of adding in the downward piece and the bottom piece as shown in your diagram just have a connector piece straight across someplace in the middle or at the bottom; this will be much easier and stronger.

2x6's will support the wall just fine, the only issue is warping so doubling them up into one leg support would be incredibly strong and long-lasting.

Also the wall will be heavier then you realize and making it have angles that change will require you to come-up with a good way to support the wall while changing the legs. I assume it is doable but probably not the easiest thing to do.

Pictures of all of my different home walls: mountainproject.com/v/10663…

This wall below kind of shows the result you are looking for. The support on the far left side goes straight to the ground and is jammed against the garage wall.

Climbing Wall #3: fitted in one side of a 2 car garage.

If I understand, you already built three seperate frames the exact size of a piece of plywood and are planning to stack them on top of each other? There will be a fair amount of stress trying to rip those panels apart when you are hanging under them. I would cut one of your pieces of plywood in half, lengthwise, and use the 2'x8' pieces for the very top and very bottom of the wall. Use the two full sheets to overlap the three sections - one between bottom and middle and one between middle and top. And either bolt the sections together or use many screws.
You might also consider an extra 2x6x12' on each end to help with the stresses of those panels wanting to separate.
I agree with the the above comment on using the wall as part of the triangle to eliminate one framing member for your support.

If Dan's correct in that you have three separate sections that you intend to stack - yikes. Start over with 2x6x12s as the joists, much stronger and simpler.

ditto what JoeP said. you need the beams to be continuous (ie 12 feet long). if you try to link 3 separate frames, it is going to take a shit-ton of knick-knackery to cobble something adequate together.

Well my first thought was to use 12 foot beams but it won't go through the hallway that i need it to because it's too large. So i had to use some thing smaller.

While at Lowe's today, I was told that using 6-8 1/2" bolts in a staggered pattern would be more than enough to hold the frames together, and not to place the frames stacked in the same fashion (as in 3 frames stacked on top of each other) but to place 2 vertically (tall section going top to bottom) and the last frame on top horizontally, and still using bolts. Would that decrease the stress? I was also told that if I wanted to stack them one on top of the other, I could place cross beams along the back of the studs, and that would make it like one panel.

Dan, I actually wanted to do that originally but I couldn't figure out the design. I wanted to make a 2' footboard and a 2' headboard but I couldn't figure out how and still make it freestanding.

Evan Sanders wrote: 6-8 1/2" bolts in a staggered pattern would be more than enough to hold the frames together, and not to place the frames stacked in the same fashion (as in 3 frames stacked on top of each other) but to place 2 vertically (tall section going top to bottom) and the last frame on top horizontally, and still using bolts.

This will work. A lot more effort on your part but it will be strong.

The other option would be to combine the three frames together and then put the 4x8 plywood sheets on the opposite way to reinforce the frame (using your example above for the frames and then for the 4x8 plywood put one sheet horizontally at the bottom and two vertical at the top). This would be an easy way to add rigidness to the structure.

Evan Sanders wrote:While at Lowe's today, I was told that using 6-8 1/2" bolts in a staggered pattern would be more than enough to hold the frames together, and not to place the frames stacked in the same fashion (as in 3 frames stacked on top of each other) but to place 2 vertically (tall section going top to bottom) and the last frame on top horizontally, and still using bolts. Would that decrease the stress?

That would be better, yes, since you would only have one bad joint instead of two. It's still not the best way to build it, but if it's all you're able to do it may be workable. Make sure you put big washers on those bolts and nuts.

Evan Sanders wrote:Dan, I actually wanted to do that originally but I couldn't figure out the design. I wanted to make a 2' footboard and a 2' headboard but I couldn't figure out how and still make it freestanding.

Not sure we are on the same page as far as head/foot board. I was making a suggestion on how to apply the plywood to better reinforce the wall (see photo).

As has been mentioned, whenever possible if you can have the lumber for the wall be full length that is by far the better option.

reinforcement

the bolted connection would work OK (definitely not optimal though) in terms of strength, but you will probably have problems with deflection. i wouldn't advise it.

same thing goes for using the plywood as the only connection by overlapping the frames.

if you are going to gthis route, you probably want to combine the options. bolt the frames together, and then use plywood (preferably on both sides of the wall) to overlap the joints.

also, i wouldn't really advise taking structural suggestions from folks who work at lowes or home depot.

I think Dan's drawing above would work but I will say that your design is way sub-par and potentially dangerous. I would probably add some 3/8" or 1/2" plywood on the back as well to make a torsion box, but you could get away with diagional bracing. You really need to tie more than the edges of the top frame back into the "real" frame, bolting them together is not going to cut it as the weak link will be the frame to plywood connection. Consider using #10 x 2" screws to attach the plywood to the frame and sub floor adhesive as well. I would also rebuild this frame so that the joists are aligned vertically.

You are not going to be able to adjust the wall from the top without mechanical advantage or pulleys as a 8x12 wall will be between 600 to 1000 lbs depending on how many t-nuts and holds you have on it. I would have the frame bolt into the posts with a bit of play and figure out a system to raise/lower the bottom of the wall. With a 8' lever arm you should be able to do it.

An alternative and much safer design would be a 8x8 wall at 45 degrees with a 4x8 wall above at 15 to 30 degrees. Then you can tie the top back into the steep wall with additional framing and the top wall would be above the support posts vs cantalevered.

Kevin Stricker wrote: I will say that your design is way sub-par and potentially dangerous.

Now that right there is some funny shit!

Your wall isn't dangerous Evan it's just gonna look like a retarded monkey that had absolutely zero understanding of carpentry built it.

Do as you have been advised and you will learn from your mistake.

Your next wall will be better...I guarantee it.

+1 on potentially dangerous setup!

I think you can make your wall idea bomber, though...

you need to think about the forces involved... compression on the upper side, and tension on the lower, climbing side... as it wants to bow in as you're cranking, burling the gnarl..

so.. you could stack up your frames... with the most studs oriented in a vertical manner... hopefully lined up a bit too... and place the ply-would in a vertical manner, one side in the upper corner, one in the other lower corner... and half pieces to fit the other corners.

and probably a bit more tension members... i suggest some 2x4x8-10 footers screwed on the underside(climbing side). The 4" side screwed flat to the wall(2x6 frame members, and 'specially the horizonatal 2x6s), from the foot up, and the head down, overlapping a bit in the most heavily stressed middle height area. I would build this in a steep chevron=like pattern, and shape it for a pinch/ lay-back rail..

For the braces leading from the wall to the floor, a 2x6 on each side should work, and slightly more vertical than the wall.

Great luck! Be careful of advice from Lowe's.. and online

Good luck on the adjusting part

MattB wrote:Be careful of advice from Lowe's.. and online

haha

Kevin Stricker wrote:An alternative and much safer design would be a 8x8 wall at 45 degrees with a 4x8 wall above at 15 to 30 degrees. Then you can tie the top back into the steep wall with additional framing and the top wall would be above the support posts vs cantalevered.

Can you explain this a little better? I'm trying to envision what your saying but I'm having some trouble. Also, what would the extra framing look like?

EDIT: Is this something like what you mean? Red is the bracing and addition framing, black is the wall. I realize the framing might be wrong, but hopefully someone can help me out with that.

Wall2

Yarp wrote: Your wall isn't dangerous Evan it's just gonna look like a retarded monkey that had absolutely zero understanding of carpentry built it.

I don't know anything about looking like a retarded monkey but as for carpentry....well you pretty much hit the nail on the head (*background rimshot*). Anything past a flat wall and I'm dumbfounded.

Your last photo looks like you got the idea. Probably not adjustable, but will be more interesting and safer to climb on.

I would add a triangular brace to the front of the post as well to keep it from wanting to rock forward, or you could put some sandbags on the bottom back of the wall for counterweight.

If you still have the vertical panels built seperately then add an additional full length header and footer tying the two frames together. I would rebuild the top frame so that the vertical joists are cut with a miter to attach directly into the double top header. once the frame is built add the plywood so it runs over to cover the bottom plate of the upper wall and the transition.

The rear frame pieces should attach to the top joists below the top header and back down as far onto the lower frames as you can get them. Ideally using 3/8" hex bolts but 3-4 #10 x 3" screws would be OK as well. I would use at least 3 of them but 4 would be better.

Look into Simpson post tie connectors to attach the wall to the posts, which should be either 4x4's or doubled 2x6's. They are in their own section at HD or Lowes and there will be lots to choose from.

You can shoot me an email if you run into a roadblock and I will try to help.

Here's something else to consider. I gather the reason you are wanting to make it free standing is because you are renting and will want to move it out when your lease is up. If that is the case, cobbling together your existing structures with all of the headers and whatnot is going to be a royal PITA to remove. If it were me, I would just start over and build a proper 8x8 wall, which is more than enough for a good workout, and will be simple to remove and rebuild in another location. Not to mention it will be lighter and make the adjustable part way easier to work with.

So i've got a few different options now. I'm finishing things up this weekend so I'll take some photos of the finished product.

Option 1: Deconstruct the whole thing and start over. This probably won't happen as due to the space constraints going into the room (stupid skinny hallway) I can't get anything bigger than an 8 foot beam inside.

Option 2: Build a flat wall, 2 vertical frames and one horizontal frame bolted together, plywood overlapping the frames for extra support and cross support beams on the back. This is a maybe. General consensus seems to be it would be safe but ill advised. So I'm sitting on this idea for now.

Option 3: Kevin's alternative, 8x8 foot flat wall with a separate 4x8 panel on top and extra framing in the back. This would be the ideal option as of right now, safer and seems more fun. I'd be a little wary of it being top heavy though, but that's nothing more support beams won't fix. Also I may not have the construction and carpentry skills to make the frame in the back. I have way too many questions about specifics of that design and not enough answers. It seems very doable, I'm just not sure how

Option 4: Just stick with a single 8x8 panel. Easy, doable, but not quite as fun. This is my final option.

Evan Sanders wrote:SOption 2: Build a flat wall, 2 vertical frames and one horizontal frame bolted together, plywood overlapping the frames for extra support and cross support beams on the back. This is a maybe. General consensus seems to be it would be safe but ill advised. So I'm sitting on this idea for now.

I still vote this option. If you are really worried about stress you can put two support beams, one at the top and one at the upper frame join (on the lower frame just below the upper frame connection). Beef up some of the back support and use a metal strap diagonally across the back to help with flex.

UPDATE: I think I've got the design I want to use, it seems safer and still a lot of fun. Still have a couple of questions so if anyone wants to help me out I'd appreciate it. Here's the design:

wall3

A is a 4x4 (haven't cut length yet)
B is an 8 foot 4x4 attached with a 1/2" bolt just below the header of the 8x8 wall
C is a 12 foot (maybe slightly less, need to measure) 2x6 laid down flat
D is a 4x8 roof centered on top the 8x8 main wall (main wall is a 15-20 degree overhang)

First, any thoughts about the design? The two frames making up the 8x8 are solid and don't flex at all (even with me hanging off the middle), but I haven't attached the third frame yet to make the roof. Also, is my system for the bracing and making it freestanding okay? Or is there anything I can do to make it more structurally sound?

Also I had an idea for working on topping out but wasn't sure if it was safe or not. My thought was to attach another piece of 4x8 plywood on top of the roof (where "D" is) and put some holds on top. Then the finishing move would be to finish on top of the roof. Again, wasn't sure if it was safe or not or if anyone had tried that.

make beam 'B' go down to the intersection of 'A' and 'C'. or, if your 'B' isn't long enough or you don't have enough room, you could put in another member between the intersection of A and D, and the intersection of B and C. having your members form triangles will greatly increase the warp resistance. alternatively, if you used some plywood to sheet the sides, that will provide the warp resistance as well.

looks pretty cool, let us know how it comes out.