Guideline #1: I will try not to be a jerk.

That said: for one of the major areas near me, many of the routes were entered by one particular person. Many of those entries are rambling, sometime incoherent, and often badly entered (ie, direct beta in the route description, or stories of this person's singular experience on it).

this guy apparently .... he doesn't know how to capitalize letters .... and he seems ... hopelessly addicted to ellipses ... ... ... ...

What are another user's options, in terms of cleaning up the route entry?

1. Add a comment if you have a correction or addition to the content.

2. Contact the route poster with your concerns.

3. Contact the area administrator with your concerns.

4. Become an administrator for the area -- then you can edit the route descriptions yourself. Contact the current area administrator(s) and see if they are open to having you join the team.

Whatever lady you just want to be a pain in the ass......

josh

I think personal experiences in the description add to it not only do you find out about the route but you read very interesting stories about someones adventures on the specific route. As for direct beta I not sure its horrible I dont know where you are climbing and the standard on this sight, but a description of where the crux is sometimes will have beta description in them. And do ellipses really take away from the post?

I think stories in the description are horrible and self agrandising.

Just give the route description, I don't care how cool or epic your experience was.

If you want to share those things thats what the comments are for.
I've added some routes to the database, If there is something beyond a description I want to share I just add a comment...it really is that simple.

josh

Unless they're writing a move by move description, no harm in a little history if it's from the first accent party.

The style of writing in ellipses is something I've been guilty of. It's annoying to say the least...

As far as a story with the route, I say bring them on. I don't want any move beta. How to get to the route, get off, and what gear I need is the only pertinent technical beta I want. I love the history too.

I don't know if it'd be possible make a "spoiler alert" rollover like IMDB has.

i don't mind coming across the occasional anecdote in a route description, especially if the entry is for a first ascent or a big alpine/trad line.

as far as ellipses go, i'm not sure how they fit in to a route description. the "..." is meant to take the place of superfluous words/information in a quote, or indicate an incomplete thought. if you're describing a route, i can't see how it would be appropriate to include an incomplete thought in your description, and what's the point of quoting something in a route description if parts of the quote are unnecessary?

Nice personal photo there clmbr51!

Several times I've added routes and then immediately added a comment with a personal story. I prefer this to putting the personal narrative in the description.


Examples: Standard Route, Sunlight Spire, Regular Route - Direct Start

Thanks Adam I didn't realize I borrowed that Great photo from you.
Hopefully I'll be able to replace it with a shot of my own after this weekend.

i guess when you start off with guideline #1 your are asking for trouble.

I will say this: you have a point when people take things to an extreme, but remember there are all kinds of computer users out there and not everybody is as talented with a PC. so try to be kind. speaking of being a pain in the ass... Perhaps we can start editing some of the photos in your album... ?? - just trying to be helpful.
;-0

also remember that Mountain project was started with the principle that its the resource "that goes beyond the guide book... "


btw... I like when people give a blow by blow account of their experiences.. I like to know what their favorite jug is eTc..... ...... ..... ..... ..... . and I enjoy mis-speling and mIsUse of CAPS. THEY ARE CONSIDERED FORMS OF EXPRESSION. OTHERWISE PEOPLE MAY THINK WHAT THEY ARE READING IS BORING OR COULD HAVE READ IN A GUIDE BOOK.

.am I being a jerk or mean? I would say no. I am joking around and being sarcastic. as long as we are breaking balls I though I would jump in.

Again you have a good point when people take it to the extreme its annoying and non-productive.

I have taken a few opportunities to work with the Admins and other users to help improve the site. Remember this site is also about working with climbers in your community to improve safety and knowledge. My primary goals are to climb safe and have fun.

Honestly, Dave, I'd say you're being a jerk. I was intentionally vague about the person and area in question. You, on the other hand, are directly and indirectly making fun of me, specifically. Call it sarcasm - whatever.

--

The reason I posted wasn't to castigate a single person; it was to raise the issue of a collaborative site, where the route entries themselves can be monopolized by one person and then are no longer open to revision or improvement. I am hoping to help improve the site. I am certainly not the queen of perfection, nor did I claim to be.

JSH,

I'm sorry you feel like I'm a jerk. I was not trying to be one., perhaps I went to far. I will shut up, my humor stinks. Sorry about being specific (I see you removed the photo that didn't upload properly). Different people will focus on different details, when I saw an error in your photo post after reading your criticism of another users contributions, i should have taken that topic "off-line" with you. I don't see MP as a site where grammar should count, or where people should be chastised for making an honest effort. I feel bad for making you feel bad.

Its unfortunate that someone has monopolized the section you are focusing on. Perhaps an administrator can help you gain control of that area. I honestly say good luck to you. Have fun, be happy, and climb safe.

Sincerely yours,
Dave

As an admin I often work with people to correct a section that needs quite a bit of work since we don't generally have the the time to correct every spelling or formatting error that we see. With 40,000 plus routes it can take a lot of time, hence it is nice to spread it out.

If the area is in Colorado I'd be more than happy to work with you on this. However, I'm away for the next couple of weeks down under so it will have to wait until next month some time.

One thing that admins and landloards have been kicking around for a while is the ability to adopt an area to fix it up. It would be something along the lines of clicking an "adopt button" which would send an automaticated email to the orginal contributor asking for permission to update it, etc... This is conceptual at this time.

Cheers

John

Thats a great Idea John.

John, that's an idea I'd like to see implemented. Also consider that people drift in & out of climbing ... the original contributor may not reply, so then what?

I haven't heard from the area admin yet. I'll give it some more time.

Peace, Dave.