Hangboard grip form?

One of the grip positions I use is a half crimp. I do one-rep max hangs with 3 minute rests in between each hang, currently with 69 pounds of added weight.

For the first four or so hangs I can hold a good half crimp. But for the final two or three reps, the grip starts to "melt" a little bit, a process that seems to be exacerbated by the weight swinging a little bit on my harness. I try to steady the swing with my toe briefly on the floor, but that feels like cheating.

Should I switch to a lower resistance that allows me to hold a perfect half crimp for all 7 sets? Or just keep pushing at the current resistance? If you think I should reduce resistance, should I do it for all 7, or just the last few?

Seems like one of the fundamental training rules is to maintain proper form during exercises.

From what I've been reading lately you don't need to go to failure on low rep/high resistance sets to obtain maximum results. (As opposed to high rep/low resistance sets where apparently you do.)

So it seems to me like the risk/reward ratio tilts to the negative side when you increase risk of injury using bad form with little if any extra training benefit.

I think either of the options you propose (less weight for all 7 reps vs a drop set version with decreasing weights later in the workout) would work. The drop sets may cause more fatigue though, so if recovery is an issue, you might prefer the straight set version.

Curious to hear what folks who actually know what they are talking about will say. Will S, Peter, Slim, Aerlii?,Mike/Mark?

Mark E Dixon wrote:Seems like one of the fundamental training rules is to maintain proper form during exercises. From what I've been reading lately you don't need to go to failure on low rep/high intensity sets to obtain maximum results. (As opposed to high rep/low intensity sets where apparently you do.) So it seems to me like the risk/reward ratio tilts to the negative side when you increase risk of injury using bad form with little if any extra training benefit. I think either of the options you propose (less weight for all 7 reps vs a drop set version with decreasing weights later in the workout) would work. The drop sets may cause more fatigue though, so if recovery is an issue, you might prefer the straight set version. Curious to hear what folks who actually know what they are talking about will say. Slim? Aerlii? Mike/Mark?

Definitely in agreement on good form as a general principle. I was just thinking that this might represent an exception because the grip that I'm "melting" into is basically an open hand grip, which is also a grip that people train... Seems like another potential problem might be that I'm not actually training the grip I set out to train at the beginning of the set.

What about
1) start with the current resistance
2) for the rep following the one where my form deteriorates, reduce the resistance

Speaking of negative, the "melting" you're describing is basically an eccentric contraction and unless that's specifically what you want to do, I would recommend backing off the added weight.

Also you are not saying how long the hangs actually last which would be helpful.

Peter Beal wrote:Speaking of negative, the "melting" you're describing is basically an eccentric contraction and unless that's specifically what you want to do, I would recommend backing off the added weight. Also you are not saying how long the hangs actually last which would be helpful.

10 seconds

If you're adding weight and losing form around 7-8 seconds, which is what it sounds like, then maybe find the weight that lets you hold form solidly to 10 seconds to start. Then once you find yourself more easily holding to 10 or even 12 seconds, up the weight in 5 pound increments slowly over time.

The only danger with weight-added eccentrics is you really don't want to introduce dynamic moving loads in a fingerboard situation. The physics and resultant force on your connective tissue are different from an isometric situation. So unless you're prepared for that load, it could be injurious. And even then...

Peter Beal wrote:If you're adding weight and losing form around 7-8 seconds, which is what it sounds like, then maybe find the weight that lets you hold form solidly to 10 seconds to start. Then once you find yourself more easily holding to 10 or even 12 seconds, up the weight in 5 pound increments slowly over time. The only danger with weight-added eccentrics is you really don't want to introduce dynamic moving loads in a fingerboard situation. The physics and resultant force on your connective tissue are different from an isometric situation. So unless you're prepared for that load, it could be injurious. And even then...

Thanks.
Should I only reduce the resistance for the sets I have trouble with (the last 3), or for all the sets?

Peter Beal wrote:Speaking of negative, the "melting" you're describing is basically an eccentric contraction and unless that's specifically what you want to do, I would recommend backing off the added weight. Also you are not saying how long the hangs actually last which would be helpful.

Excellent point about the eccentric contraction. This would also tend to increase myofibril damage and lengthen recovery.

Optimistic wrote: Thanks. Should I only reduce the resistance for the sets I have trouble with (the last 3), or for all the sets?

Also, what about trying a longer rest (4 or 5 minutes?) as a way to maintain the current resistance for all the sets?

Optimistic wrote: Also, what about trying a longer rest (4 or 5 minutes?) as a way to maintain the current resistance for all the sets?

Easy to try it. Not sure it would help. Won't hurt except by making your workout that much longer.

Do fewer sets. 5 should be plenty if you're trying hard. If you can't hold the grip you want to for 7 then dial it back, especially for 1RMs. You don't want more than a few sessions of this regardless before moving on to more endurance related training.

Peter Beal wrote:Do fewer sets. 5 should be plenty if you're trying hard. If you can't hold the grip you want to for 7 then dial it back, especially for 1RMs. You don't want more than a few sessions of this regardless before moving on to more endurance related training.

"moving on" meaning not hangboard, or just not 1RM?

does that say 69 lbs added?

HBTHREE wrote:does that say 69 lbs added?

Yes. Too much? Not enough? That's my 1RM for 10 seconds.

not sure what grades your climbing or what your looking to build and to each there own but that seems like alot of weight. i like to go smaller holds verse the larger weight or maybe single arm hangs when i hang board (which is only for strength at begining of a training season) i find it easier to quantify results, less damaging to the the body and feels more like climbing relates to real rock, just me.

Moving on as in switching to non-1RM training, yes.

agree with peter here

HBTHREE wrote:not sure what grades your climbing or what your looking to build and to each there own but that seems like alot of weight. i like to go smaller holds verse the larger weight or maybe single arm hangs when i hang board (which is only for strength at begining of a training season) i find it easier to quantify results, less damaging to the the body and feels more like climbing relates to real rock, just me.

Not leading too hard, working on trad 10s. Rightly or wrongly I'm using Steve Maisch's approach, which involves a little bit bigger hold (3/4"). He says that the bigger holds are safer, both skin and tendon wise.
stevemaischtraining.com/fin…

BTW I know that at the grades I'm climbing finger strength is not really the limiting factor. But I'm working on progressing toward grades where it IS more of a limiting factor, so I'm just putting it in the bank.

I think one data point Maisch uses is a study by Eva Lopez showing similar strength gains with larger and smaller edges, I think he talks about it on the website.

At that level you do not need any training beyond climbing technique. Definitely no need for 1RM training whatsoever.

Peter Beal wrote:Moving on as in switching to non-1RM training, yes.

I thought hangboard was more thought of as for strength than for endurance? Maisch contends that the 1RM approach gets the same strength results more efficiently (fewer reps in the workout). He also advocates a fairly limited number of grips.

I don't have an opinion on all this, just trying to learn stuff and climb better. But his efficiency argument did seem appealing, and using larger holds does too...