Go with guides or get rest of gear...

I am a new climber. me and my partner have only been doing gym walls because we live in kansas. going on vacation in 2 weeks to Seattle , oregon, san fran, grand canyon, and telluride, co. So excited to experience the real rock.

only problem is gear and knowledge, I've read many helpful reviews and forums, and watched youtube videos. still dont feel like i know what to do.

gear we already have:
- harnesses
- climbing shoes
- grigri belay device
- carabiners ( locking and non locking) only 1 each

gear we need:
- Rope ( what kind, how long)
- helmets?
- others??

I would also like to know what the different gear recommended for different kind of climbs is necessary.
We plan on just doing top rope climbing so it relates to what we are used to.
So there are two options here.... Go with guides for a pricey half day. Or purchase the rest of the gear so we can go on our own time and for cheaper(in the long run).

or if anyone in any of those places wants to take us. haha

THanks for any response!

Get a guide or find someone willing to take you guys out. It will be safer and you will learn a lot more than If you guys went out and just went for it. Worth the money to ensure you guys being safe.

"only problem is gear and knowledge, I've read many helpful reviews and forums, and watched youtube videos. still dont feel like i know what to do."

There's your answer

Things more expensive than a guide:

-hospital bills
-funeral bills
-loss of income because of injury
-psychological toll related to trauma

A guide is a bargain by comparison.

Thanks guys!
would anyone know of a good guide crew/company? maybe one that isnt 200$ a day/person. anywhere in Washington or Oregon?

Go with a guide for a day. If possible call the guiding service to ask for a recommended gear list for your intended objective or find a more experienced mentor that you trust.
You state that you only intend to top rope so the set up, while normally not very elaborate, can cover a wide range of possibilities. It would be best to hire a guide in an area that you are interested in climbing. Translating form the gym to the crag with two inexperienced climbers is a situation that I have seen go wrong more than a few times.
One of my favorite books is Anchors by John Long and Bob Gaines, while not a substitute for an experienced eye watching over you it will give you some of the technical knowledge you need. Practice the principles and skills outlined in the book and it can reduce the learning curve a bit.
All in all be safe, knowledge and experience will come in time, be patient most climbers will correct you if they see you doing something incorrect. Be tolerant of this advice and say Thank You and never pass up the opportunity to learn.
cheers

Welcome to the most addicting sport on the planet Carter! Top roping isn't rocket science, but given your situation & time constraints I would try to get a guide if at all possible. Don't know where you will be in Oregon but if you will be anywhere close to Bend then Smith Rock is a major destination area and well worth checking out. Don't know anything about them but this is what popped up on google for guiding companies: smithrockclimbingguides.com/

Sounds like quite the road trip you are taking - research bouldering areas along your route and try to hit up as many as you can to get more rock time with no gear needed. (bouldering pad is nice but not absolutely required) Have fun & be safe.

Guides are lame, just get yourself a copy of Freedom of the Hills. All you really need for most toprope rigs is a rope, biners, and some webbing. Better off just getting this stuff now. Besides, most guides are going to charge you more than $200 for a half day out. Don't listen to these bozos telling you to get a guide. Not cool.

Not sure if the last post was a troll, but I sort of agree.
If you get a guide you can afford to climb one day. If you get more gear, AND a good book on anchors (check out Craig Luebbens book Rock Climbing Anchors), you can climb for the whole trip. Setting up a top rope does not require an advanced degree. I'm sure most of the people on this forum learned it without ever hiring a guide. Study the literature. Use your head. Check and recheck everything. If someone at the cliff tells you that you're screwing it up, don't be a jerk. Listen and learn.

Another option is to save up your money and move out of Kansas. But hey, if you come through Durango, shoot me a message. I'll show you how to set up a basic top rope anchor.

Thanks guys. Maybe I'll post in regional and see who feel like being a teacher for a day.

Teachers like beer

Guides are not lame. Hire one. I don't know what the hell that other guy is talking about. Sounds like he hasn't guided a day in his life. One of the most respectable professions Iv'e taken on. you will learn a lot for your money and you won't die. Hire a guide. San Juan Mountain Guides would be great for Telluride and the American Alpine Institute in Bellingham for your WA climbing needs. Both groups are highly respectable and are members of the AMGA. If you want to climb and be safe, it is worth the money so budget it accordingly.

If people used guides as often as they recommended other people to get a guide, you'd see guides everywhere showing up to work in gold plated subarus.

It is possible to teach yourself to climb safely, but it requires time, dedication, and clear thinking, things you might be lacking if you're rushing to go out and climb on a trip. If you can afford it and want to simplify things, hire a guide, even for just a day. If not, make sure you're considering how easy it is to mess something up.

Get the book 'top roping' by Gaines. Published by Faclcon guides. Wither you hire a guide or not is your call. Either way you need to buy the gear. If you study this book and practice all the anchors, knots, and techniques, you will have a good foundation. Practice everything on level ground in the backyard. Belay each other with an anchor on flat ground. Your neighbors will think you've lost your mind but whatever. A guide at that point will be gravy.

Gear you NEED:

Climbing Rope
Static line - 30'
Slings - 4 @ 48"
Webbing - 20'
Beaners - I'd say about 6 more lockers
ATC device

That should get you toproping in no time.

Study and be safe. Check and double check. If anything is questioned make sure you find an answer.

Enjoy the trip.

You've got some good suggestions coming your way here. Here's mine:

Post up to the regional areas looking for someone willing to teach, and willing to answer your questions. You could meet a lot of other climbers that way, and you'll get a lot of exposure to different opinions on what constitutes good anchors.

Buy a rope on sale somewhere in the hundred dollar range. Get a single dynamic line in the 10mm range, 60 or 70 meters long. That way you can offer it up for wear, vs expecting all these folks to provide everything for you. Also offer beer, or lunch, or something like that as a thank you.

Get copies of both "Anchors" and "Freedom of the Hills". Read them. Practice them. You can also pick up used gear on this website and on Ebay for cheap. When I say used gear, I don't mean ropes and runners and such... buy those shiny and new. I mean stoppers, cams, and carabiners. Get a set of nuts and a handful of cams, a set of biners, and some new webbing to go with the new rope. Now, you won't be familiar with the gear yet, so don't go building your own anchors and USING them, that's a fantastically bad idea. Instead, start practicing gear placements at ground level and linking them together. You can do that just about anywhere, including in the cracked concrete in front of your house if you've got cracks big enough to take pro.

Point is, as mentioned above, you can teach yourself to place pro and build anchors over time and with minimal input; but this trip isn't the right setting for you to try and learn on the fly. That's a likely way to die. But if you have the gear with you, it's a great opportunity to learn.

Normally certified guides are fairly expensive, but there are almost always people willing to "guide" you for much less money. There's some funny name for it, like "buccaneer guiding", or something. Anywho, it's way cheaper.

^ yup. I'll do it for a 6 pack of Ska. Mexican Logger is back for the season.

i can almost always tell when new folks learn off books and youtube ...

those who learn from experienced folks or guides dont just get a taught a solid graps of the basics but also all the little tips and tricks that climbing alot will develop

those who learn off books/youtube/forums often fumble their way, waste time on complicated anchor setups, walk around the crag arguing about TR anchors, and do weird things

eventually with enough experience climbing with other folks this situation corrects itself ... and those self taught folks start learning or developing their own little tricks for efficiency/safety

of course some around here never learn and you can see em "teach" other newbies inefficient or unsafe practices

....

here a story about someone who decked from 30m off a top rope anchor up here this winter

- climber is supposedly somewhat experienced

- climber takes out some inexperienced girl

- climber goes to the top to set up TR anchor

- climber sets up two sliding Xs for "reduncancy" and does not use lockers on the bolt side (description from someone who was there)

- climber throws down one side of the rope, ties into the other side and goes on belay

- climber weights the anchor going over the edge, anchor falls apart

- climber tumbles down the slab, luckily hes wearing a pack and that protects his back, decks and needs evac

what is suspected is that the climber clipped the wrong two strands of the double sliding X AND when he went over the edge the biner got loaded in such a fashion that one of the slings came out ...

while i have no idea whether this particular individual learned off a guide ... if he did then he didnt follow what they teach out here, the basic knotted masterpoint anchor (they might show a single sliding X) ... and lockers when setting up from the top when going over an edge (yes yes two draws often are fine when leading from the bottom, but when youre going over the edge from the top biners can get loaded in funny ways that open the gate)

anyways the point is that even fro TR its important to learn these little things properly from someone who is safe and experienced so you dont get bad habits or have these kind of gaps

eventually though the problem will self correct itself with enough climbing days ... the only question is whether some embarrassment (when yr experienced partner finds out you arent as experienced or safe as claimed) occurs .... or an injury ... or you get away with it

gear is cheap ... knowledge when applied properly and practiced is priceless

yeah, I'm split on this

^^^^ what bearbreeder said: guides, climbing experience teaches you what to do, and WHAT NOT TO DO, the latter you might not find on your youtube vids and books

that being said I would agree with someone above who said most of us didn't learn from guides. getting into climbing is best done through experienced friends who morph into mentors. if you don't have one, find one, there's plenty of people who get their kicks off teaching others, i.e. good for them and you both. Just make sure to stay vigilant and assess the person you're learning from, because everyone's human.

While I would advocate, buying gear and getting after it, you're limiting yourself in that you're trying to take advantage of this trip you're are going on in 2 weeks. You WILL NOT have the skills to get out in 2 weeks. You might, go out and make out 'just-fine' and you might not, and that is the situation many are advocating against.

We recently had a family friend say to us, "Hey we're going on a trip and want to go climbing, can you tell us what to buy." and my gf said to me "Ughh, that makes me feel unsafe, should we try to take them out and teach them?", and I thought to myself "I don't even want to take them out and teach them, because if someone has the mind to buy gear and go out on their own, they well might have the mind to get one lesson and go out on their own, neither of which I would feel comfortable for directing".

bearbreeder wrote:of course some around here never learn and you can see em "teach" other newbies inefficient or unsafe practices