By pbetts
Nov 5, 2009
| Climbers,
I am a student at Colorado State University - Pueblo in their Outdoor Leadership degree.
I am doing a research project on indoor climbing safety and am looking for rock climbers (of any experience) to take a short, less than 5 minute, survey.
The purpose of my research is to see if indoor climbing gyms (help) promote bad habits that increase the risk of the sport.
Follow this link and please take the survey:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=3IkETPMoa6CM4A576xjXlg>>>>>
If you any questions or comments, feel free to express them!
Patrick | 
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By Peter Franzen
Administrator
From Portland, OR
Nov 5, 2009
| Done! Good luck with your project! |
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By cheifitj
From Louisville, Colorado
Nov 5, 2009
| Done.
Being a statistician I always get a good chuckle out of surveys and what people think are 'samples'.
Two things I can say from spending a lot of time in gyms.
1. People are lazy belayers, get distracted and don't keep a hand on the break line.
2. NEVER STEP ON THE ROPE!!! Why is it OK if your inside? People should wear crampons and be in the dirt more often. |
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By Tradster
From Phoenix AZ
Nov 5, 2009
| Done. Nice survey. Gyms promote sloppy habits IMHO. Years ago before gyms, belayers seldom ever dropped anyone because people PAID ATTENTION. |
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By Buff Johnson
From Coniferous, CO
Nov 5, 2009
| I didn't see this item so I said I use the belay knife in the gym quite regularly. Just trying to keep within the 10 essentials, leave no trace, conservation, et al; you know. |
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By Tradster
From Phoenix AZ
Nov 5, 2009
| Buff, you are too funny. Is that knife serrated? |
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By Robin like the bird
From mountain center ,CA
Nov 5, 2009
| you for got to ask if the climber takes a safety brake before there climbing endeavors. I know I try to, just to make sure everyone is safe |
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By Buff Johnson
From Coniferous, CO
Nov 5, 2009
| Ah man, nobody came up with this one:
When you go to the gym, is the shirt on or off?
(ps - I took the survey, just so you know I wasn't a dickhead) |
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By Bob Packwood
From Longtucky, CO
Nov 5, 2009
| Puff tough and run it out.
PS- took the survey, good luck |
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By Tom Hanson
From Castle Rock, CO
Nov 5, 2009
| Gym Climbing vs Climbing Outdoors
(a.k.a. Why I Never Climb Indoors)
Climbing Outdoors:
Bats, wasps, snakes, guano, cacti, bears, mountain lions, poison ivy and oak, stinging nettles.
Super bomber looking holds explode as soon as you trust them.
Loose, wet, razor sharp, non-existant, mossy, urinated on, bled on, choss.
Loose bolts, no bolts, .00 micro nuts, 75' runouts.
No comparison.
Why would anyone ever climb indoors? |
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By Tyson Anderson
From Las Vegas, NV
Nov 5, 2009
| I liked the part where I was 20% done with the survey before I did anything. |
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By Bobby Hanson
From Salt Lake City, UT
Nov 5, 2009
| Tyson Anderson wrote: I liked the part where I was 20% done with the survey before I did anything.
As an academic, I understand. It's called Grade Inflation, Tyson. |
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By Boreas
From Colorado, Utah
Nov 5, 2009
| Tradster wrote: Done. Nice survey. Gyms promote sloppy habits IMHO. Years ago before gyms, belayers seldom ever dropped anyone because people PAID ATTENTION.
I once watched a belayer (using a gri-gri) drop the leader about 50 feet to the ground in a gym. He kept his thumb pushing down on the system, let go with the break hand to give slack, everything you can possibly do wrong with that belay system. The Leader hit the ground full speed, flat back onto the (thankfully) padded floor. The belayer just stood there, for about a minute, just staring at the person he just dropped. He didn't even un-hook from the rope for about three minutes, just watched as everyone else in the gym began to help. He never walked over to try to help. The leader had the wind knocked out of him, but was otherwise all right.
Now, I am not sure what it says about gym climbing, but this person started climbing in the indoor environment. I would never want to see this ever happen to anyone at any time, but I will say that I was thankful that they were indoors with a well padded floor versus being outside. This kind of accident is happening everywhere with increased frequency. Its not the indoor climbing I assign blame to per-say, but the popularity combined with ease of access creates a perfect "Petri dish" for bad habits.
Climbing is dangerous. I don't need a warning label or disclaimer to tell me this, it has been obvious from the first time I saw a mountain. I wish that climbers/ belayers like the one in the story here would read those labels where it says: "Get proper instruction on how to use this from professionals". The instructions that come with the Gri-Gri are clear, and the posters everywhere on the wall of this gym clearly illustrate the same message. This Accident was clearly "pilot error". I wonder if this belayer would have made this mistake if he would have taken a class on climbing versus getting a membership to the gym. "day passes" to climb are dumbing down climbing IMHO. |
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By Bobby Hanson
From Salt Lake City, UT
Nov 5, 2009
| I took the survey, and it included these terms: Brake Under Stress and Slap Stick.
I am not familiar with that terminology, can someone tell me what those are? And where does this terminology come from? |
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By Boreas
From Colorado, Utah
Nov 5, 2009
| Bobby Hanson wrote: I took the survey, and it included these terms: Brake Under Stress and Slap Stick. I am not familiar with that terminology, can someone tell me what those are? And where does this terminology come from?
I am not aware of this terminology either. We must be too old, or its a front range thing. Its what we get for living behind the "zion curtain".
Can we call Royal Robbins, Yvon Chouinard, or the Lowes, and ask why didn't they write about these terms in their books.
Do Chris Sharma, Tommy Caldwell, Dean Potter "slap stick" or just "B.U.S." it..... |
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By Dan Godshall
From Colorado Springs, CO
Nov 5, 2009
| Agreed. I've been belaying with an ATC for 15 years and have never heard either of those terms. I don't care what you call it as long as your brake hand never comes off the rope. |
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By Robert 560
From The Land of the Lost
Nov 5, 2009
| Bobby Hanson wrote: I took the survey, and it included these terms: Brake Under Stress and Slap Stick. I am not familiar with that terminology, can someone tell me what those are? And where does this terminology come from?
+1 |
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By Mike Lane
From Centennial, CO
Nov 5, 2009
| I'm not sure I like the sound of the "slap stick" belay method. You look down and Groucho Marx has got your rope? |
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By Tom R
From Denver, CO
Nov 5, 2009
| Bobby Hanson wrote: I took the survey, and it included these terms: Brake Under Stress and Slap Stick. I am not familiar with that terminology, can someone tell me what those are? And where does this terminology come from?
http://www.ehow.com/video_2358473_belay-yourself-rock-climbi>>>>>
I wasn't sure what was meant by those terms either. |
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By Ian F.
From Phx
Nov 5, 2009
| That's great! I hit that question and thought for a moment I didn't know how to belay anymore. Glad to hear I wasn't the only one. |
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By Forestvonsinkafinger
From Iowa
Nov 5, 2009
| The most unsafe practice that used to be taught at our gym, and is still taught in the classes is clipping into the leg/belt loop rather than the belay loop. Climbers and belayers used to have to wear helmets, now only climbers (logic?) |
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By Brett Brotherton
From Arvada, CO
Nov 5, 2009
| >
why would you ever take a class everything you need to know about climbing can be learned from those ehow videos. |
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By Wayne
From Superior, CO
Nov 5, 2009
| Well the survey actually has "Break Under Stress method (BUS)" as one choice, and I had no idea either. But google quickly reveals it to be what I have heard as the palm down method. So the other is the palm up method where you place the ropes together? |
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By Paul Shultz
From Caldwell, NJ
Nov 5, 2009
| I'm an SPI and I train people at the ropes course I work at. I climbed in one gym and people were taught a way to belay where they never locked off, unless the person fell. This was only rememdied but the "pulley" up top that the rope wrapped around several times creating lots of friction, so much so that I had to feed rope to lower my 200 lb. partner. |
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By Christian
From Tucson, Az
Nov 5, 2009
| Yeah the "break under stress" belay, remind me never to climb with that guy haha |
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By Chase Roskos
From Leadville, CO
Nov 5, 2009
| I've heard of both the slip/slap/slide and the B.U.S. methods. Though I heard a different definition of BUS - Brake/Under/Slide. Basically you lock down the brake end of the rope, grab under your brake hand with the other, then slide your brake hand up. Supposedly safer because when you slap the rope up in the other method you are moving hands with the least amount of friction possible. |
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