I think Leo hit it on the head. Marriage is all about the compromise. If you do nothing but take and don't give, she is going to resent climbing soon.

My friend Tenesmus does one of the best balancing acts I have witnessed. Family, work load, climbing, he has it dialed.

I wonder how many of the spouses are actually concerned about the consumption of time involved in climbing, because I can't see the difference in it and, for instance, playing golf on the weekend.

It seems to me that most men with busy family schedules are usually able to get away once a week for a round of golf without upsetting a spouse. So maybe this has more to do with their fear that you are more likely to be seriously injured or worse, potentially leaving your family in a terrible bind.

don't get married you won't have this problem.

Tony, it seems you two are having a sane and open dialogue about having kids and the changes it will cause in yall's lifestyle and sanity. Sounds like a great start to me.

I once asked my mother if she felt like she'd sacrificed her dreams to motherhood, and she said:
"No, having kids and raising them was what I wanteed to do."

I was never sure if that was true or not. I mean, do you honestly answer a 16 year old highschool junior:
"Well, having you was a sacrifice..."

But actions speak louder, and I believe that's what she wanted. I see what 'green eyes' was saying about women on get-aways talking about kids a lot. I've seen and heard it, and not just from women- men too. My college climber partner refered to his first kid as 'the tender trap.' But he was happy all through it.

I do think, from my own personal observations, that women are quicker to adopt an identity associated with family- kids first, and then husband, parents, etc... and perhaps that drives more their greater need for affiliation relative to men. Then again, testosterone is an anti-social hormone, so perhaps that is what drives us not to do as as much as women. No matter how you look at it, I think men generally remain more independant of the family identity and that may lead to their 'run off and play' attitude compared to women.

Interesting thoughts.

One of the keys to maintaining a marriage is to have an understanding of each other and how you operate. My wife likes to hang out on a beach. I like to climb. I am an Irish-Scottish boy who after two hours in the sun and a few margs later looks like Larry the lobster. My wife's idea of a good time is to go to the movies. I have not been to a movie in years and do not really even like television. She takes vacations with her girl friends to Mexico to lye on a beach. Me I go to El Portrero Chico, Yosemite etcetera with my climbing partners. We have twin five year old girls and a seven year old boy.

Making your wife climb seems more like an act of insecurity or co-dependance than needing a partner. Tons of partners on this site. Like finding a crap table in Vegas. Marriage is tough and there is no prince charming or Cinderella. Marriage is always a "work in progress" and having somewhat contractual agreements creates a good system of management. People are constantly changing, so is your spouse. Of course one of my friends said "I've been married fifteen years, and it seems like five minutes --------- UNDER WATER! :)

p.s My childen are featured on E-Bay this week. Running a special on the girls. Two for the price of one. Boys more expensive since he can ski and climb and will make a good belay slave soon. Your gonna pay for perks.

Here is the result of 39 years of climbing and 33 years of marriage:

Grandpa Greg, Erika, & Natalie at 1 year birthday party Submitted By: Greg Hand on Jan 10, 2008

When my kids were young I tried to teach them that when I said "JUMP!", their response was to be "How high?". Unfortunately, they were a little too young, and when I would say "JUMP!", their response was "Hi Ho!".

( We still struggle for time now and then, when she feels left behind. But when she's busy there is no real problem.)

That's just Life insert work,children,climbing, fishing, Butt surfing or what ever.
AS with anything look to the ones that have succeeded to see what works.
To make a realationship work do you ask the divorced guy hanging out at the gym or bar what to do? Or the person so driven that there is really no room for a better half?
For years living in a van climbing I knew I had no room for us or we it was climbing,work and then relationships. As far as relationships were concerned they were worked around climbing.
Then I changed not all at once. But a time came when I knew I was ready to share and give.
If you are lucky to find and know that you have found the person you will spend the rest of your life with nothing is better.
I believe in balance but when in life is anything 50/50. At times in the past 25 years of marriage ( this March) Both my wife's needs and mine have taken priority. That is not 50/50 but a balance ever changing as any healthy relationship.
For sometime I resented that after our first daughter my wife stopped running and climbing. Then I realized my wife was happy and it was me that had the problem.
When I asked myself tonight am I my wife's equal I laughed to myself.
I could never match her qualities on so many levels.

Getting a divorce and/or quitting climbing are not the answers. Seriously, it's no wonder why the divorce rate is 1:2. I can testify to this as I come from two broken families. Again, divorce is not the answer, especially when it comes to climbing.

My wife is a non climber. She knew what I was and what drives me before we were married. There are times when I have to make sacrifices and tell my climbing buddies I can't make it. Married friends do the same with me. No big deal. Life goes on. No divorce needed. Go climbing another day. Spend time with your spouse.

My advice:

1. Don't get a divorce because climbing puts a strain on your marriage.

2. Understand what your spouse is feeling because those feelings are important. Climbers are inherently super driven people, and, when not climbing, can be 'edgy'. Work through the edgy times.

3. Find activities that BOTH of you enjoy together. I actually found myself in a paddle boat on Evergreen Lake last fall on a beautiful 70 degree Saturday afternoon and enjoying myself.

4. Marriage counselors will tell you that your kids will pull through a divorce and that everything will be OK. Wrong. Your kids might appear to be OK, but, they will suffer deep emotional problems for years. Sometimes those feelings don't surface until adulthood. As mentioned above, I am a child of two divorces. I still feel the pain and emptyness in my heart.

5. When away from your spouse and climbing, try to make the most of your day. Climb with people who you enjoy climbing with and climb routes that inspire you.

To my divorced climbing friends with kids: Sorry guys, I had to get this out. I feel your pain.

Shane

^^^ one of the best posts in this thread so far...

Holy cow, can't say I read all those posts, but here's something to add.

I'm a woman married to a non climber and it's great! I get home from a long day of climbing and he has a wonderful dinner ready.

Seriously, it's great to do your own activities as well as doing things together.

(...as clarified I'm not married to Tony, we just climb together)

Nice Joseffa and when you get to climb with me I make you dinner, break out the soothing lavender foot spray, get to lead calcite covered chimneys....

Sounds like you have all your men well trained.

I am just glad to have you rope gun thin hand cracks and even more pleased that your great husband lets you climb with a punk like myself.

You arent married to Tony????HA!