Anyone have any suggestions on the best way to stay hydrated on all-day ascents that require more water than is feasible to carry (and you won't find more en route). I have tried hydrating intensely the day prior but don't feel it's usually sufficient. Thoughts?

Hey Sarah, I have the same problem. Normally I drink water like a fish, so alpine days I know will be dehydrating and/or backstraining when hauling multiple liters. I'm curious to see what other people suggest about this. I've bonked on occasion, even with drinking a lot of water. My partners suggested eating more salts prior to and after climbing, and that seems to help (fast food actually tastes good is after a really strenuous day - grease, sugar and salt, yum). While hiking/climbing, as much as I want to guzzle water, I force myself to ration it, otherwise I think it just passes through you quicker.

Take a bigger camelback that holds 2+ liters. You can stuff your food, jacket, headlamp, topo, etc in and that way you have close to a sufficient amount of water.

Or I often try and drink a liter and a half right before starting up the route plus bring the camelback. You'll pee a lot but will be better hydrated.

Hydrate up prior to your outing with a drink like Gatorade, or some such fluid to load up on electrolytes. Something like Endorox 4 for afterwards will help with muscle recovery and electrolyte replacement. If you just use water, you dilute the body's electrolytes and you will feel the effects late in the day or certainly the next. I've had two friends go to the ER because they loaded up with water and nothing else. Arizona isn't the place to do this. The body goes wacky from such a diluting effect. One way to stay hydrated is to use Platypus type collapsible bladders, that way they just roll or fold up out of the way, but you can hydrate up big time during the approach with no bulky empty water bottles to fight with later on.

1. Get up early

2. Suffer. It's part of climbing... Er, alpinism at least.

SaraB what's up? We really must get out sometime.

Mark Twight has a very good explanation of how to stay hydrated in his book "Extreme Alpinism". He suggests mixing in sport drinks whose glucose comes from glucose polymers (maltodextrins), although these don't taste as good as glucose and sucrose from carbohydrate components. Look for amino acids, potassium and sodium as well in the ingredients. Try to stay away from caffiene.
Consistently drink a little bit all day long as opposed to gulping down a big amount at once.

Or get your partner to carry your water for you.

Agreed Lee. But, seriously - have you seen Nick and Brendan lately - I'm usually the pack mule. Let's be honest!
Yesterday a big day on a 14er and brought a camel back full of hammer gel heed. Worked pretty well but still needed to drink an entire pitcher (no ice) with dinner. I guess so it goes.
Thanks for all the advice.
What are your thoughts about salt from like pretzels and the like. Does that help replace electrolytes? I'm so confused on the electrolyte gig.

Maybe adjust your ideas about how much water it is feasible to carry.

I typically carry 3 liters on an all-day route. It's usually enough.

A lot of myths in this thread. Caffeine will not cause dehydration so don't worry about coffee or tea in the morning. Also over-hydrating will not lead to faster dehydration, it just makes you pee more. Gatorade (and the rest) is really no better than water and food. Endurox R4 is no better whatsoever for muscle recovery than other fluids and foods (even chocolate milk); the 4:1 thing has been debunked.

The best option for preventing dehydration is drinking when you are thirsty. You'll often hear nonsense like "if you wait until your thirsty, it's too late" -- that's based on crap science funded by Gatorade. The 8 eight-ounce glasses of water thing is also a lie. It's best to drink lots of sips throughout the day instead of gulping down a liter but sometimes climbing doesn't allow that. Plain water is just fine as long as you're intaking other fuel sources; fruits count too. Drinking sport drinks while eating sport fuels actually slows absorption and can even temporarily dehydrate you more because the concentrations of carbs, etc. are way too high. Compared to everything else you're carrying, an extra liter or water in a collapsible bottle shouldn't be a deal breaker.

As for hyponatremia, don't worry about it -- just eat real food. Yes, it's a major worry in marathons where endless fluids are available; no sport drinks have enough electrolytes for high sweat rates and few people eat when running. And it's a problem on Grand Canyon hikes in extreme heat where people rely on sport drinks and little else. But a lot of normal foods are high in sodium and eating throughout the day will take care of you. If it's really hot, go heavier on salted nuts, pringles, pretzels, etc. You really don't have to pay the sports marketers for engineered crap. Athletes are among the most gullible consumers out there and will do anything for a supposed edge; good thing placebos work so well ;-)

If you're alpine climbing, you can carry a single one-liter bottle, a UV pen, and a ziplock bag with some Gatorade powder. There's an endless supply of crystal-clear water in the mountains.

MoJo Bars are nice and salty, and replenishing salt is important.

Sure they work. But the question is: do they work better than products that cost much less and/or taste much better? The answer to that is a definite NO. Endurox does great marketing but the science they base their claims on was never great and hasn't improved. Look at their research and you'll see there is no evidence that 4:1 is superior to other ratios or that their over-priced product is superior to food.

Want good endurance? Drink some water and eat GORP. Wanna recover fast? Eat a turkey sandwich on whole wheat bread and drink a good microbrew with plenty of hops. Lots of other options without wasting money on marketing.

Thirst is not a reliable indicator of hydration, as if you are already thirsty you are dehydrated. You should be drinking even when you are not thirsty

I like cytomax it has helped on some of my biking & runnning when i go for a long time as well as on alpine trips. Plus it has aminos which are supposed to help with recovery as aminos are the building blocks of protein which in turn are supposed to help you recover quicker. I just can't drink water after a period of time. But really you don't need anything like that unless you are going for more than 1 hr of cardio I think (if I remember correctly)

THe military used to believe that you can train the body to go without water, that was later debunked. Depending on activity level i think you can go max 48 hrs without water, but of course performance suffers greatly. I know a super long distance runner who just slams water & gatorade days before he does a race.

in my case i pack less food and more liquids. gels and protein bars. some of which make me thirsty anyway. Aside from carrying a bigger camel back i don't think there is a way around it.

Living in AZ, if you are already thirsty, you are already dehydrated. Clyde states to eat some food. Well, I mountain bike all summer here in Phoenix, and 100 plus temps are the norm, and I like to bike for anywhere from two to four hours per ride. Food takes too long to replenish the body. It probably takes two to three hours for food to start being broken down in the stomach. A sports drink with electolytes takes much less time to hit the system, and time is very important. The quicker I can recover from strenuous activity, the longer I can ride, climb, or kayak the next day. It really is just that simple.

I'm a big fan o the Gatorade. For a bunch of dummies from Gainesville, they sure did come up with something beneficial.

The advice I got was if you did load up on it and your body didn't need it, you can create nausea -- which is why we're seeing the lighter Gatorade-type bevies; likewise, if you only drink water and your body needs the other items, then you can be in trouble just the same.

It's an equilibrium you're trying to maintain while being physically active.