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Colorado Thief caught in the act at Smith
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By Lee Jenkins
From Buena Vista, Colorado
Dec 30, 2010
Pingora Left Side Cracks - Wind River Range. July 2013

Cindy Mitchell wrote:
Does anyone from the springs know his name? I climb down there quite frequently and hope my pack doesn't come up missing because I left it at the bottom of a crag.


Yeah Ditto. Bad Karma for this guy for 2011...


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By Lee Jenkins
From Buena Vista, Colorado
Dec 30, 2010
Pingora Left Side Cracks - Wind River Range. July 2013

episteme wrote:
Here is my $0.02 on the question of “abandonment,” as someone who has practiced law for more than twenty years (with the caveat that I do not practice in Oregon and every jurisdiction is different): Property is abandoned only if the intent of the owner was to relinquish ownership rights, i.e., to give away the property (there are cases, not applicable here, where certain property is deemed abandoned if the owner can’t be located and a lot of time has gone by). If I leave my umbrella at a restaurant, it is not "abandoned." If I set my pack down and leave it unattended, for an hour or a month, I have not abandoned it, so long as I intend to come back for it. If you leave draws on a route for a few days to work it, you have not thereby declared that you no longer want them. “Finders keepers” is a nursery rhyme, not a succinct summary of personal property law. Hence, before you make off with personal property, you had better have good reason to believe it is abandoned. Here, all indications were that the draws were left on these very hard routes temporarily while someone worked them. If I were the judge, in a bench trial, and this guy’s defense was that he mistakenly thought the draws had been “abandoned,” well, let’s just say he wouldn’t fare too well. By the way, neither land managers nor the police make the laws. Legislators and judges do that. That some land manager has an opinion on a matter of property law doesn’t make that opinion the law.


I agree. I have 3 family member/attorneys (fun group to party with..NOT!) My wife had a pack stolen at a parking lot in the Tetons a few years ago. She set it down and forgot about it while we went for a short hike. Came back and its gone, gone gone... the Park service took our claim and said it was simple theft. We never got it back of course...


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By VA from CO
Dec 30, 2010

Hey, Hillary- next time untie the grey line!!!


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By 8egg.nu
Dec 30, 2010

Might i remind everyone that the folks out there hanging their draws are giving us all a chance to get better at climbing by climbing stuff we might be afraid we would have to leave our own gear on. more often than not these are the people developing new routes and climbing venues too. To those folks i say thanks for all the hard work and commitment. leave all the draws you want and thanks.


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By GMBurns
Dec 30, 2010
Climbing at Morro Anhangava in Southern Brasil. <br /> <br />(photo by Isa Vellozo)

Mike Anderson wrote:
I wouldn't go into a donkey-f***ing thread and tell people what lube to use, but I bet some of you guys would....


Oh come on now, you know you would. In fact, I bet you have. Seriously, admitting you have a problem is the first step.


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By Greg D
From Here
Dec 30, 2010
Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W. <br />

8egg.nu wrote:
Might i remind everyone that the folks out there hanging their draws are giving us all a chance to get better at climbing by climbing stuff we might be afraid we would have to leave our own gear on.


Please, more pink pointers. My climbing has gotten so much better since pink pointers started strutting their stuff and leaving their draws. Not to mention I'm super scared to leave a biner behind.

Yes, I'm so thankful! Every time a pink pointer leaves a fixed draw an angel gets its wings.


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By phillip
Dec 30, 2010

P LaDouche wrote:
We should call this website Mountain Pinkpoint for the new year. What I want to know is when did the pinkpointers start calling the shots in the climbing community?


It started in Oregon around '83 when Watts realized how ridiculous it was to remove his draws after every attempt on what would become Chain Reaction.


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By Warren Scott
Dec 30, 2010

I have a route I've been putting up for over a year now on an obscure cliff near Moab. Lots of gear is up on top that's probably all tat now. Maybe the Hippie Thief, aka the Kebler Elf (thanks for that one Larry) could hike his slippered feet up and take it all down for me. Better yet, tie into the rap slings and tippy toe around on the face...


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By Pat Erley
From Gunnison, CO
Dec 31, 2010
me

Well, obviously we have a leprechaun in smith rocks.
Hes climbin up your routes and hes snatchin your draws up
Hide your draws, hide your rope, hide your draws, hide your rope
and hide your cams too cause hes snatchin everything out here

You dont have to come and confess, we have you on video
we gonna find you! we gonna find you!
so run and tell that run and tell that
home boy home boy home boy!


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By Pat Erley
From Gunnison, CO
Dec 31, 2010
me

This should sum things up.

www.xtranormal.com/watch/8208337/


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By Lanky
From Portland, ME
Dec 31, 2010

P LaDouche wrote:
We should call this website Mountain Pinkpoint for the new year. What I want to know is when did the pinkpointers start calling the shots in the climbing community?

Why so obtuse? Are you as big an ass in real life as you are here? I pity your "friends."


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By Crag Dweller
From New York, NY
Dec 31, 2010
My navigator keeps me from getting lost

8egg.nu wrote:
Might i remind everyone that the folks out there hanging their draws are giving us all a chance to get better at climbing by climbing stuff we might be afraid we would have to leave our own gear on. more often than not these are the people developing new routes and climbing venues too. To those folks i say thanks for all the hard work and commitment. leave all the draws you want and thanks.


+1


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By Phil Lauffen
From The Bubble
Dec 31, 2010
RMNP skiing. Photo by Nodin de Saillan

Pat Erley wrote:
This should sum things up. www.xtranormal.com/watch/8208337/


lol thats awesome


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By Stich
From Colorado Springs, Colorado
Dec 31, 2010
Coffee after freezing our asses off near James Peak.

Phil Lauffen wrote:
lol thats awesome


+++10001


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By dale polen
From arivaca, az
Dec 31, 2010

Good for him. Dont leave them behind if you dont want them stolen. Im sure most of the land you climb on is public, so I would say you are probably littering by leaving them their in the first place. C;lip the bolts when you climb the route and clean it when your done.If you cant do that then your really climbing above your with a bit of climbing sense. Stupid sport climbers.


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By Marc H
From Lafayette, CO
Dec 31, 2010
The Cathedral Spires in RMNP, left to right: Stiletto, Sharkstooth, Forbidden Tower, Petit Grepon, The Saber, The Foil, The Moon & The Jackknife.

8egg.nu wrote:
Might i remind everyone that the folks out there hanging their draws are giving us all a chance to get better at climbing by climbing stuff we might be afraid we would have to leave our own gear on.


This is one of the weakest arguments on the thread. If you start up a sport climb that you can't finish, the most that you have to leave behind is a single "leaver 'biner."

That being said, it's pretty lame to show up at an area that you're not familiar with and grab all of the fixed draws--presumably to sell. Just because the Leprechaun knows a little rope work doesn't make him a "climber."

That being said, leaving fixed draws behind is only slightly less lame than stealing fixed draws. Slightly.

--Marc


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By Jerad Friedrichs
From Colorado Springs
Dec 31, 2010
Daydream Nation

I am in the Springs and unfortunately places like Garden of Gods it is common for people to abandon gear and someone take it. So I can see how the habit of taking gear without knowing the ethics of projecting can occur. Regardless, common sense should've told this guy that it was obvious people were'nt just bailing out on these climbs (unless he was a lying douche... which seems plausible but i'm not assuming). I have good fiends that have had whole routes stolen from at Elevenmile and Shelf Road. I have been to many areas Rifle and Smith included and have always respected fixed gear and project equipped routes. This guy handled it great I think and we should educate people why there is gear left in certain places. That being said, I will spread the word and keep an eye out for this guy!


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By England
From ?
Dec 31, 2010
Alpine toothpick.

Mike Anderson wrote:
I am amazed by some of the arrogance in this thread. How can you say you've never sport climbed, then go on to lecture people about it? I fully understand if fixed draws rub you the wrong way, but have some bloody humility and admit that maybe you don't know everything there is to know about everything. I wouldn't go into a donkey-f***ing thread and tell people what lube to use, but I bet some of you guys would....

Astroglide!


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By Michael Dupont
Dec 31, 2010

episteme wrote:
“Finders keepers” is a nursery rhyme, not a succinct summary of personal property law.


Damn, does this mean I can no longer site the case of "F. Keepers vs. L. Weeper" as precedent?


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By -sp
From East-Coast
Dec 31, 2010
Buenos Dias!

Pat Erley wrote:
This should sum things up. www.xtranormal.com




That made the entire thread worthwhile.


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By Allen Sanderson
From Oootah
Dec 31, 2010

8egg.nu wrote:
Might i remind everyone that the folks out there hanging their draws are giving us all a chance to get better at climbing by climbing stuff we might be afraid we would have to leave our own gear on. more often than not these are the people developing new routes and climbing venues too. To those folks i say thanks for all the hard work and commitment. leave all the draws you want and thanks.


Utter BS. Most climbers get stronger by launching themselves at a route and placing gear - whether it clipping a bolt or slamming in a cam. Folks hanging draws and leaving draws are doing it for themselves and no one else. Yeah sometimes after a long period of time the draws get left behind perhaps even forgotten. But I seriously doubt that Ian et. al. will be leaving their draws once they have their pink point.

As for leaving gear behind cause you failed. Most climbers have a bail biner that they can leave. If a climber is leaving bail biners left and right perhaps they should either get on routes that are more within their grade or climb smarter and learn how to bail off of a bolt without leaving crap behind.

As for the whole leaving draws while projecting a route. Climbers have been leaving ropes and crap at Smith longer than most on this site have been able to wipe their own ass. I saw ropes hanging while climbing at Smith in the late 70s. Butt (pun intended) that does not make it right. Climbers should do their best to minimize their impact at all times. Park rangers should especially know this creed. Clean up your and your dog's crap when you leave, take your draws down, erase your tick marks, pick up your cigarette butts and tape, etc. etc.

Finally, while I cannot condone leaving draws, removing draws for whatever reason (safety, annoyance, want to use your own) without making any attempt to return them to owner is to be condemned. The perp is a douche. He is not a climber nor a member of the climbing community. He is simply a common thief looking to take advantage of an opportunity and is no better than the meth heads who have ripped off any number of us off in the recent past.


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By P LaDouche
From CO
Dec 31, 2010

JulianM wrote:
Why so obtuse? Are you as big an ass in real life as you are here? I pity your "friends."


I'm sorry, does the word pinkpointer make you feel the need to call me an ass? I just say it as I see it Julian, pinkpointers/gym climbers seem to feel like they have some special power to call the shots at world class climbing areas and I think thats complete bullshit. 14a, 5.8+, it doesnt matter. The rules shouldnt change, clean your shit up or take the risk of it going home with someone else. Its just a few draws, if they are that important to you then take your draws home with you, its simple.

It all boils down to lazy behavior really, how long would it take someone projecting a climb to actually hang the draws without getting too pumped on a climb above their actual onsite level so they could give it a few burns that day? an hour at most.


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By aaron davidson
From Denver, Co
Dec 31, 2010

this guy is a total d bag!
thats stealing no matter what, i dont support leaving your beaners on a route , its not just yours but you should'nt be stealing them either! this guy is a total joke. and deserved more than just a talking to ...


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By Bryan Gilmore
From Your Mama
Dec 31, 2010
Beagle

This has to be a TROLL. You guys should win a Slashy for this. If it's not a troll, please stop calling him a Colorado climber... just 'cause a cat climbs in an oven to have her kittens doesn't make 'em biscuits!


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By Mike Anderson
From Dayton, OH
Dec 31, 2010

Question...do you guys believe in honoring local ethics?


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