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Colorado Thief caught in the act at Smith
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Dec 29, 2010
Batman Pinnacle
Julius Beres wrote:
I would be interested in hearing from a lawyer, but I assume this is an ethics question and not a legal one. My assumption is that what he was doing was not legally theft. But I am curious where the line is drawn. If someone takes my car parked on a public street it is theft. If I put a $20 bill down on a public street and someone takes it, it is definitely not considered theft. Both are my property and both are left at the same place, but there is a distinction made. I don't want to get into a debate on whether it is right or wrong to leave draws, but I am curious what the legal grounds are for leaving your property on public lands, and whether you are forfeiting your property rights. If I go do an alpine route and I leave my tent at the base, I assume no one has the right to take it. However, do I have the same legal standing if I backpack in 2 weeks before and leave a bunch of gear in the woods? The argument would be the same as for fixed draws... it is hard to do an alpine route carrying all the gear at once, so I stashed some of it... but do I have a right to claim someone that took it is a thief?


I am not a lawyer, but I know that the standard used by Yosemite is that property left for greater than 24 hours can be considered abandoned.
Scott O
From California
Joined Mar 30, 2010
26 points
Dec 29, 2010
Tevis Blom wrote:
Something about the people climbing 14s makes them think the cliff is theirs to deposit their junk on. Maybe the elites should clean up their crap like the rest of us moderate losers.


If you had any idea how much Ian contributes to Smith Rock climbing, and the upkeep of the park, your head would implode from the irony of these statements.
phillip
Joined Jun 23, 2007
145 points
Dec 29, 2010
phillip wrote:
If you had any idea how much Ian contributes to Smith Rock climbing, and the upkeep of the park, your head would implode from the irony of these statements.


So if I were to move to Bend and help maintain Smith I could put up draws on all the 5.9s and leave them there?
P LaDouche
From CO
Joined Apr 12, 2007
16 points
Dec 29, 2010
P LaDouche wrote:
So if I were to move to Bend and help maintain Smith I could put up draws on all the 5.9s and leave them there?


That would cost a lot for one person, gumbies and nOObs would steal them, AND you'd have to settle for pinkpoints.
phillip
Joined Jun 23, 2007
145 points
Dec 29, 2010
Where? Wouldn't you like to know. You have to buy ...
If you leave your shit laying around or on a route it can get stolen.
"Instant Karma is gonna get ya"-John Lennon

Everyone get the lesson learned; don't leave stuff around for idiots to decide its theirs.
P.S. nice rap video, where that fits in to all this I am not sure.
PTZ
From Chicago/Colorado
Joined Jul 27, 2010
523 points
Dec 29, 2010
Bocan
sonvclimbing wrote:
This guy is a thief. No doubt. To kill over it, beat him sensless or make fun of him = something wrong with you.


Maybe I have the east coast up bringing, but if I catch you stealing my stuff?? I don't know about a beating, but you'd probably catch one in the mouth.

Not to make a deal of it, but what would you suggest as you seemingly can't even make fun of a person blatantly stealing? No fricken way you stick clip up a 5.14 and DON'T know what you're doing is wrong. I don't really advocate violence, but that dude would have been handing my draws back pretty quickly, not racking them. Oh and to emphasize the point, HE STOLE THE ANCHOR BINERS!! I don't consider that fixed gear. Kudos to you guys for talking rationally to a guy that was lying in your face about stealing.

And I don't really care about the fixed / not fixed thing but in the wise words of Masta Ace....
Leave ya bike outside, come back outside, I guarantee your shit gone.
Scott McMahon
From Boulder, CO
Joined Feb 15, 2006
927 points
Dec 29, 2010
Just chillin'.
PTZ wrote:
"Instant Karma is gonna get ya"-John Lennon


Wonder what Johnny boy did to get shot in the skull.

In the infamous words of the gun:

"Bang"
Ryando Smithman
From Golden, CO
Joined Mar 29, 2010
349 points
Dec 29, 2010
It is a good sized roof. Photo: Jimbo
Should have called the cops right away. Bet they would have found a ton of stolen property in his car and maybe something else that would have put him in jail for a while. 1Eric Rhicard
Joined Feb 15, 2006
8,616 points
Dec 29, 2010
Ouray
am i the only one who thinks he looks like Hans Klopek? Mike Willig
Joined Jun 8, 2004
780 points
Dec 29, 2010
Crux Move
damn colorado climbers. kleptomaniacs... Phil Lauffen
From The Bubble
Joined Jun 20, 2008
2,113 points
Dec 29, 2010
wcp
phillip wrote:
Third, your idea of redpointing vs pinkpointing while sport climbing is archaic. The bolt is the protection. Because sport climbs have fixed pro, sport climbers don't get excited by the act of hanging draws. It's already been decided where the pro is by the route equip-er, thus there's nothing mentally challenging about hanging draws- it simply adds contrived difficulty to redpoint attempts.


So - also no difference between leading a route with pre-placed pro and toproping the same route? After all, it is the climbing that matters, not the mucking around with pro.
SW Marlatt
From Arvada, CO
Joined Feb 8, 2006
56 points
Dec 29, 2010
Sunrise in Stevens gulch
This guy is brilliant; an asshole, but brilliant...

- He makes a good chunk of cash reselling free gear; he cannot suffer any legal ramifications; and as for his conscience...even the climbing community he steals from can't come to a consensus regarding the ethics pertaining to gear on routes.

-I live in NYC, I climb in the Gunks, we don't leave gear, but we also don't have much fixed gear to leave it on.

-Leaving draws on a route in absentia implies, to me, some sense of ownership over that line for the duration of the project....something I'm confident we're all against.
Coppolo
From Denver, CO
Joined Jun 4, 2010
50 points
Dec 29, 2010
Eric Rhicard wrote:
Should have called the cops right away. Bet they would have found a ton of stolen property in his car...


+1

This guy is pretty clearly a common thief.
Not a climber, a thief.
He has a BS answer to any question and the women sit around acting uninterested. They've got a real scam going there.

Like Eric says, you open this mofo's trunk, I bet you find a lot of the racks that have been reported stolen over the past year.

What time of day did this incident occur ?
Paul Davidson
Joined Jan 22, 2007
969 points
Dec 29, 2010
Guy deserves a beatdown for the bad hippie beard and stupid hat alone, add the thievery and he's close to capital punishment territory. Will S
From Joshua Tree
Joined Nov 15, 2006
1,262 points
Dec 29, 2010
SW Marlatt wrote:
So - also no difference between leading a route with pre-placed pro and toproping the same route? After all, it is the climbing that matters, not the mucking around with pro.


Picnic Lunch Wall is 550ft tall. It'd be tricky to toprope.
phillip
Joined Jun 23, 2007
145 points
Administrator
Dec 29, 2010
El Chorro
I think you guys handled the situation very well and I think we can all learn a bit about how to keep your cool from the video. But did you really have to throw out the "that's a 5.14a" comment? Sure he was stealing your draws; but if they had been on a 5.10 wouldn't it still be stealing? Why does it matter what grade the climb is? Ryan Williams
From London (sort of)
Joined May 10, 2009
1,468 points
Dec 29, 2010
rockerwaves
tagtele.com/videos/voir/21907 Olaf Mitchell
From Paia, Maui, Hi,
Joined Mar 16, 2007
4,261 points
Dec 29, 2010
Playin around at Yonah
NOFF wrote:
SUBANTZ also addmitted to being a hold chipper. Please go to seclimbers.org , and look under the topic: Please stop CHIPPING Toxic Wall that I posted.


Yeah and I sniff glue while I am reinforcing holds.
Let me make this clear I have never taken a draw. I do sport climb. I also have never chipped a hold,
What I have done was troll the internet trying to get a rise out of U.
So my work here is done.
Thank you and come again.
SubantZ
From Georgia SON!!!!
Joined Feb 8, 2009
9 points
Dec 29, 2010
rockerwaves
WELL YEAH ! Olaf Mitchell
From Paia, Maui, Hi,
Joined Mar 16, 2007
4,261 points
Dec 29, 2010
JasonH wrote:
Now, look here Gumby - I realize that you can bumble your way up slabs with a knee-high tube socks and seven different belay devices clipped to every loop on your harness and then proceed to the nearest bar, harness still on, and start to loudly talk about the way-rad 5.9 offwidth you and your bro "totally crushed" (on TR of course) before logging onto your favorite website and lecturing others about ethics (solid, well-grounded ethics based on MONTHS! of experience). But really dude, no one cares about your gumby opinions. Fixed draws are a long-established tradition at places like Smith Rocks (dating back to the 80s) and no one, not even the park service, has a problem with them (aside from mental midgets with internet access). You see, its the bumblers like you and the dimwitted things you write that encourage half-lobotomized, fez-wearing thieves to act. It was just lucky that this clown ran into some extremely nice locals who were willing to lecture him instead of pounding him. We can only hope you get caught by similarly nice climbers who are willing to listen to the three-legged hamster in your head spinning its wheel as your mouth spits out stupid excuses. Unfortunately, I think the Smith thief will likely seem like a rocket scientist compared to you. Now you go get yourself some "stolden" draws!


Huston, this only confirms that I have been right along, you have gone totally sporto and there is no saving you now. Even DEFENDING sportos on a public forum. HAVE YOU GONE MAD!?!?!?
I hereby declare all of your leads NULL AND VOID based on the overwhelming evidence that you condone the Pink Point. If you would please send me your man card via first class mail immediately I may allow you to keep what small cache of trad gear you have left.

BTW, J-Tree last week in March, Lohre is in. Trad climbing ONLY.
Tradoholic
Joined Apr 17, 2004
12,472 points
Administrator
Dec 29, 2010
Pure bliss..
Ryan Williams wrote:
But did you really have to throw out the "that's a 5.14a" comment? Sure he was stealing your draws; but if they had been on a 5.10 wouldn't it still be stealing? Why does it matter what grade the climb is?


Because of the fact that the hippie/thief was on a wall littered with climbs so far out of his league, he could only be up to no good (stealing draws). Whatever, the kids jedi-mind talking certainly had that skanky dirt muffin all frazzled. Super classic.
Hank Caylor
From Golden, CO
Joined Dec 9, 2003
589 points
Dec 30, 2010
Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W.
il cop wrote:
Leaving draws on a route in absentia implies, to me, some sense of ownership over that line for the duration of the project....something I'm confident we're all against.


The best statement yet.

And my girlfriend's comment was quite good too.

"Which tool do you want to be?" The thief or the guy that thinks fixed draws are ok cause it was 14a.
Greg D
From Here
Joined Apr 5, 2006
960 points
Dec 30, 2010
interesting the number of people on this thread who think its okay for this fuzzy-faced fuckhead to steal shit just because it aint nailed down. seems like the old blame the victim thing: if you don't want your draws stolen then don't leave them hanging around on some route. right. the guy who steals shit isn't responsible but the guy who has his shit stolen is an idiot who should be more careful. load of bullshit, plain and simple. the guy is a thief and a weasel to boot. defending this dude's behavior makes you a weasel, too. it isn't complicated. jeff walker
Joined Jul 31, 2007
1 points
Dec 30, 2010
Nice view
Gotchau Bitch! Owen Darrow
From Garmisch,
Joined Feb 22, 2010
1,933 points
Dec 30, 2010
Combo-Lock Draw
Combo-Lock Draw


Problem Solved.

And no, that's not for real.
Todd Wilde
Joined Oct 15, 2010
11 points


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