Anyone ever use the equalizing 2-loop Eight in anchors?
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I've been using this one for a while now, but everyone who sees me use it dumbfonded. Apparently not many people know it. I drew a crude picture to try and show it. |
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That looks like what Trango sells as a sewn and packaged item called an Alpine Equalizer (AE). Am I reading your drawing correctly? Here is a current thread happenin' in the "Trad" forum about the AE... mountainproject.com/v/trad_… Here is a YouTube demo of the AE... youtube.com/watch?v=ocp1EYmjop -Glenn |
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That's interesting, I have never tried that before. Have you every tried the Bunny ear knot(see Mark H's picture description below)? Does basically the same thing but is not self equalizing, you have to equalize it before tightening. The best part is that each loop is independent, so you don't have to worry about shock loading. I stay away from any sliding anchor system, and like to use my rope whenever possible to build an anchor. I don't like carrying extra stuff that does not have uses outside of anchor building. |
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Thanks for posting that freerangequark. I haven't seen that thing before, but it looks like it works on the same exact principal as the 2-loop eight method I posted. |
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Here's more the example using 3 points: |
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Rob P. wrote: It acts like a sliding-x, but you don't need an extra sling...just an extra carabiner.some things I like about it is the ability to use cord & knots for absorption, it does distribute, and it does so without clutching should you have quick directional changes -- which is where the x can have trouble. As with the pic I just posted, the 2-point also relies on load distribution between placements -- both acting together are adequate, but either acting on their own can't handle the load, further meaning that looking into redundancy with this rig is irrelevant. |
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Rob P. wrote:I It acts like a sliding-x, but you don't need an extra sling...just an extra carabiner.Your rig does nothing more than a sliding x. It equalizes two pieces, it has extension if one piece fails, it has complete failure if the cord breaks. A sliding x doesn't require an extra sling unless you want redundancy, same as your rig. Your rig requires an extra biner and more time to set up/break down. I don't see any benefit to your rig. I hope you don't mind my straight talk. |
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here's one that you might like. it uses the climbing rope, which i like to do in some situations -- when swinging leads, for example, and you have a couple of good anchor points that are close together. it's quick, and works well. it sort-of (with some friction...) self-equalizes, though i adjust it manually first to get it close. so, there would be extension if one piece failed. on the other hand, ya get true equalization and thus a piece is less likely to fail, which isn't the case when you tie-off the anchor points (not true equalization) -- indeed, the never-ending debate over which method is better... |
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I use a double bowline on a bight for several different purposes. One of which is to equalize two pieces of gear if I'm out of slings. Here's a pic sequence: |
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+1 on the double bowline-on-a-bight. Mostly I use cordage for just about every anchor, but sometimes--if I'm swinging leads and have plenty of rope left (and won't need all of the rope for the next pitch either)--I'll tie this knot. I leave one of the loops very short and clip a locker to it, and the other quite long and equalize all of my anchor pieces between the piece and the short locker loop. Self equalizing, but it would extend if a piece blew. But since it's self-equalizing, you reduce the chance of that happening... the old debate. |
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+1 (FWIW) on Kelly's set-up. Yeah there's some friction to the equalization and doesn't work if you're leading in blocks, but it's fast, simple, and no extra gear. |
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Kevin Craig wrote:I'm only a chemical engineer, but it still seems to me like that's a complicated way to set up 2 Death Triangles.That's a good point. I will generally only clips the two bights independent of one another if I'm near 100% sure that nothing's going to blow. In reality, I only use this knot in that configuration once in a blue moon. I use it pretty frequently as a single master point, though. --Marc |
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Kev - poor Johnny for he is no more, for what he thought was H20 was H2SO4! -- I know you've never heard it, right?? |
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Buff Johnson wrote:Mainly because of the first rule of fight club: keep moving & don't fall on the f'n anchor!Word! |
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ditto kelly and marc's methods. they work well, quick, and use very little gear. |
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Don't forget that a sliding x tied on a single sling with TWO extension-limiting knots (overhand knots on both sides of the sliding x) makes the anchor redundant. |
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though, the x would still be similarly "redundant" if it were just an x without any knots, would it knot? |
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Buff Johnson wrote:though, the x would still be similarly "redundant" if it were just an x without any knots, would it knot?Without the knots, a failure of the sling anywhere means total failure. By tying the extension limiting knots you create two independent strands in the middle. Therefore, failure of one of these strands does not equal total failure. These limiter knots do inhibit the sliding x's ability to equalize somewhat. |
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only if failure of the sling (assumed from rockfall) just happened by happenstance outside of the knots assuming the knots themselves would also not be damaged. Failure within the knots would still be failure with a single sling. |
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Kevin Stricker wrote:I stay away from any sliding anchor system, and like to use my rope whenever possible to build an anchor. I don't like carrying extra stuff that does not have uses outside of anchor building. I guess a short answer would be .."No"..i am with kevin. keep it simple! EDIT: dont know if it has been mentioned, but remember that with the double bowline, a third point can be clipped via cloving the strand that goes down to the follower |
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Buff Johnson wrote:only if failure of the sling (assumed from rockfall) just happened by happenstance outside of the knots assuming the knots themselves would also not be damaged. Failure within the knots would still be failure with a single sling. .Not so. After tying limiter knots you have two strands between the knots. Both strands would have to fail (provided you rigged it as a sliding x). Hence, redundancy. I agree that load distribution is very important, thus, reducing that chance of failure of any one component in the first place. This is why I don't use the typical cordalette rig anymore. Very poor load distribution with the slightest change in direction and/or varying lengths of "arms". |