General Thoughts on the Updates and New Cams of 2016

Hey MP users,

As an avid trad climber and gear junkie I am always checking out what the newest gear is and how it has been improved over the previous model. This year alone we are seeing updates on the Camalot C4's (ultralite), Dragon (new lobes and teeth pattern), and Wild Country Friend (pretty much a cross between the Camalot and Dragon). What do people think of these cool happenings in the traditional gear world? Give me any and all feedback you can.

Also, I already have a full rack of Camalot C'4s and Dragons, but I am interested in picking up a full rack of New Friends? Does anyone think its worth it?

As a reference, here are some photos of the new cams:

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You may want to add metolius UL master cams. Not sure if they released 2016, but even if not offsets in them are.

Also Totem Basics go down to black this year and Totems proper go up to hand sized (is, increased units in both sets.)

Meh, nothing too exciting, to be honest. The ultralights have durability issues due to the dyneema core as discussed in the previous thread. The Friends and Dragons might make a good alternative if you're building a rack, but I'm happy with my C4s. Do you really need a triple rack?

wrote:Ted Pinson Do you really need a triple rack?

Do you ever make a gear purchase and then think, "alright, I finally have all the gear I will ever need"?

Here is a better question. Does anyone think the Wild Country improvements are good/advantageous enough to sway their mind and make them purchase the New Friends over Dragons or Camalots?

I like that WC has adopted BD's color scheme for similar sized cam's. Seems a lot of manufacturers are finally getting wise and jumping on that wagon.

I'm a little wary of the extendable sling because of what BD shows here regarding damage from that configuration on a wire loop. blackdiamondequipment.com/e…

Dave Hug wrote:Here is a better question. Does anyone think the Wild Country improvements are good/advantageous enough to sway their mind and make them purchase the New Friends over Dragons or Camalots?

Personally, I love the extendable slings of the dragons but hate the lack of thumb loop. I would absolutely choose the new friends over the dragons and probably over the c4s. I haven't played with them yet but if they are c4 copies with extendable sling and lighter, there would be no reason to opt for the c4s.

Don Ferris wrote: Personally, I love the extendable slings of the dragons but hate the lack of thumb loop. I would absolutely choose the new friends over the dragons and probably over the c4s. I haven't played with them yet but if they are c4 copies with extendable sling and lighter, there would be no reason to opt for the c4s.

I cant find the specs on the new WC Friends; dont seem to be on the WC page...

Pete Spri wrote: I cant find the specs on the new WC Friends; dont seem to be on the WC page...

I thought that was weird too. I found them here:

rockandice.com/video-galler…

I just purchased a couple of Wild Country Friends. They seem almost exactly like a c4 with extendable sling. They might be a hair bigger than the c4 in size, haven't looked at the specs to see if that's true. For the same price, depending on how these Friends hold up to abuse, I'll probably start replacing with the new Friends instead of c4's. I love the extendable sling and overall look and feel!

Alright, glad this popped up, I was about to start a new thread.

I bought a #1 and #3 BD C4 Ultralight a little while back and have done probably a dozen or so routes with the #1, a little less with the #3. I don't whip hard on my gear generally because I'm a baby.

This weekend I was on a route where my #1 C4 was in a pocket slightly to the right of the route. The crux was a couple pieces further up. My partner had a couple small falls in the crux, which would have pulled the #1 UL to the side a bit as the rope tightened, with no more than a 15º bend in the rope at it. Also, around 25m of rope in the system, so this isn't a hard pull.

Anyways, I got on it after and had one take at the crux. It wasn't until that evening that I noticed the condition of the cam:

I think I had already bent it back a tiny bit when I took this.

This is crazy. No way it should have happened. The cam is structurally fine I'm sure, but the trigger bar is all wonky and the head is way out of line. I've further bent it back, but it's still not right.

Anyone else seen anything like this?

The heliums would be my preferred can if I could afford it. They have everything I want in a cam and nothing that would hinder me. Better than the ULs by black diamond too.

gavinsmith wrote:I bought a #1 and #3 BD C4 Ultralight ... This is crazy. No way it should have happened.

BD ULs have a dyneema stem. Let me repeat that - BD ULs have a dyneema stem. Given that fact, what exactly are you expecting would resist the stem/head bending under load? Maybe don't sport climb or aid on them if you don't want that result, it's not what they were designed for. They're designed as [semi-disposable] cams for catching falls in fast and light alpine.

I am not a fan of the extendable slings. When you have a full rack, things are getting bunched up and tangled. Add double layers of webbing and it just becomes more fumbley and more difficult to plug and go.

Healyje wrote: BD ULs have a dyneema stem. Let me repeat that - BD ULs have a dyneema stem. Given that fact, what exactly are you expecting would resist the stem/head bending under load? Maybe don't sport climb or aid on them if you don't want that result, it's not what they were designed for. They're designed as [semi-disposable] cams for catching falls in fast and light alpine.

Pretty much. The only rigidity the stem has from kinking is plastic. If you start loading and weighting that of course things are going to get bent out of shape. (Hopefully you can bend it back into shape.)

kemple sr. wrote:I am not a fan of the extendable slings. When you have a full rack, things are getting bunched up and tangled. Add double layers of webbing and it just becomes more fumbley and more difficult to plug and go.

If things are getting bunched up and tangled then maybe reconsider how you organise things.

I've never had such issues despite often carrying 18 cams across two gear loops. These cams include Dragons and Totems. Fumbling isn't a problem, I decide the cam I want, grab the coloured biner for it and unclip.

I also have 3 sets off nuts.

Any thoughts to the feasibility of replacing the dyneema core? BD is nuts if they think people are going to be buying a whole new rack every 5 years, but I like the idea of reducing weight on the larger sizes (UL 3-4 are the only ones that really seem worth the extra money to me). Could we maybe send them in, like how people get cam slings resewn?

Healyje wrote: BD ULs have a dyneema stem. Let me repeat that - BD ULs have a dyneema stem. Given that fact, what exactly are you expecting would resist the stem/head bending under load? Maybe don't sport climb or aid on them if you don't want that result, it's not what they were designed for. They're designed as [semi-disposable] cams for catching falls in fast and light alpine.

I understand that, and this would have been more understandable if I was sitting on a horizontal placement for a little while, but this wasn't even directly loaded. I'd expect them to have come up with a more durable solution. Evidently I was wrong. There's a very, very big difference between my C4's that I don't even need to look at after whipping around on them and these, which can't take one pull from the rope.

I just picked up a #2,3,4 in the new Friends and I think they are pretty awesome (replacing my C4s). It's basically the same sizing, same color, but with wider cam lobes, shinier (!), and the extendable sling works quite nicely in my opinion. I placed the #2 twice on Saturday and both times I extended the sling and did not need to use a draw on it. I'm not saying they are a huge step into the future but I'd buy them over C4s again if I had the choice. (I also have a .4-#1 set of Dragons that I would consider replacing with these new Friends). Edit: My go to cams are still Totems and I just got the friends because they don't go that big (will be ordering the new black and orange Totems as soon as I find them in stock somewhere).

I've logged about 50 pitches on the new Wild Country Friends. I believe they are a step up in quality and ergonomics over the traditional C4s.

So far I've climbed in:
Eldo
Lumpy
Yosemite
South Platte

While I'll contest the argument that an extendable sling allows you to carry less alpine slings, I have found them convenient for anchor building. It also helps with the cam not walking.

I'd be happy to let people check them out if you're in Golden, Co