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Jun 30, 2014
I left a yellow metolius TCU at the first pitch belay and a red hex on the third pitch of Pete's Farewell. Partner and I ended up being in a rush to finish the route as the sun was setting. If anyone happened to climb the route this past weekend and grab those pieces of gear let me know! I'll pay for shipping. John Lombardi
Joined Aug 28, 2013
105 points
Jul 1, 2014
Really? you were in a rush and now you want someone else to go up and retrieve your gear for you? Nick Goldsmith
Joined Aug 23, 2009
190 points
Jul 1, 2014
1 Any gear that you lose due to incompetence, getting spanked, fear, lack of skill , retrete, etc. becomes booty the moment that you give up attempts to recover said gear. The exception would be if you let it be known that were returning the next day at first light to resume recovery attempt. Once you give up on recovery attempts it is in fact BOOTY;)

#2 Gear left in the parking lot is lost and found, NOT booty.

3# Any gear left in the process of a rescue is NOT booty and shall be returned to the rightfull owners or next of kin.

#4 Finders of booty may offer to return booty to the spanked party but you will lose face if you accept the offer.

#5 it is extremly poor form to ask for lost booty to be returned to you. If the finders offer and you refuse the offer and they offer again then you may accept the return of the booty but you will still lose face and owe them a debt of honor. This debt may be eased but not completly erased by a gift of beer. (You and they will know that you are their bitch) It is best to suck it up and just say, hey, thanks for offering but you guys earned it.

The booty game is supposed to be fun and a way for strong poor climbers to build their rack at the expense of rich weak climbers. Italic Text As soon as someone gets hurt it is not fun anymore so everyone should pitch in, help out and try to get everyones gear back at the end of the day.

The best form is to solo up to snag the booty gear or lead up but rapping in is acceptable provideing that all recovery attemts by the loseing party have been exausted.
Nick Goldsmith
Joined Aug 23, 2009
190 points
Jul 1, 2014
Nick Goldsmith wrote:
The best form is to solo up to snag the booty gear or lead up but rapping in is acceptable provideing that all recovery attemts by the loseing party have been exausted.


I solo'd up back to the first pitch belay and tried to get the cam out. I tried for 15 minutes until I couldn't even really see the cam anymore because it was that dark out. Thanks for all the great advice, though.
John Lombardi
Joined Aug 28, 2013
105 points
Jul 1, 2014
Nick Goldsmith wrote:
Really? you were in a rush and now you want someone else to go up and retrieve your gear for you?


He asked for a favor and offered to pay for it. You are not required to be nice and help him, but don't act incredulous at the request.

I am tired of this holier than thou attitude.

Eric G.
From Saratoga Springs, NY
Joined Apr 18, 2012
53 points
Jul 1, 2014
Eric G. wrote:
He asked for a favor and offered to pay for it. You are not required to be nice and help him, but don't act incredulous at the request. I am tired of this holier than thou attitude.


Too bad, Nick is dead on.
Jim Corbett
Joined Sep 19, 2008
12 points
Jul 1, 2014
BD Fuel
Rapping in to retrieve booty is BAD form, unless it's yours to begin with.

John you left the gear behind, it's fair booty in my opinion. You can ask if the finder would be willing to send it back to you but a reward plus all shipping costs must be offered. Whether the finder takes any reward is up to them.
rocknice2
From Montreal, Quebec
Joined Nov 27, 2006
2,993 points
Jul 1, 2014
Rumney
Nick Goldsmith wrote:
1 Any gear that you lose due to incompetence, getting spanked, fear, lack of skill , retrete, etc. becomes booty the moment that you give up attempts to recover said gear. The exception would be if you let it be known that were returning the next day at first light to resume recovery attempt. Once you give up on recovery attempts it is in fact BOOTY;) #2 Gear left in the parking lot is lost and found, NOT booty. 3# Any gear left in the process of a rescue is NOT booty and shall be returned to the rightfull owners or next of kin. #4 Finders of booty may offer to return booty to the spanked party but you will lose face if you accept the offer. #5 it is extremly poor form to ask for lost booty to be returned to you. If the finders offer and you refuse the offer and they offer again then you may accept the return of the booty but you will still lose face and owe them a debt of honor. This debt may be eased but not completly erased by a gift of beer. (You and they will know that you are their bitch) It is best to suck it up and just say, hey, thanks for offering but you guys earned it. The booty game is supposed to be fun and a way for strong poor climbers to build their rack at the expense of rich weak climbers. Italic Text As soon as someone gets hurt it is not fun anymore so everyone should pitch in, help out and try to get everyones gear back at the end of the day. The best form is to solo up to snag the booty gear or lead up but rapping in is acceptable provideing that all recovery attemts by the loseing party have been exausted.


This is also how I understand it.
Kevin Heckeler
From Upstate New York
Joined Jul 10, 2010
1,497 points
Jul 1, 2014
me Tuolomne
At least, he said he'd "pay for shipping", instead of expecting someone to rescue his abandoned gear and sending it to him on their dime...

Proper "thanks" for handing over booty gear is usually payment of the sudsy kind.


Proper preparation prevents piss-poor performance, eh? Too bad they forgot their headlamps and had to "rush" before night fell...
David Lyons
From Forest Falls, CA
Joined Jun 14, 2006
132 points
Jul 1, 2014
Nick, i laughed when i read your description of the "booty game". As a chronic over-cammer, i have long ago come to terms with this game. And you are right it fun, through out the years i have both lost and gained some great little presents.

But, not everyone plays your game. Some who do play, don't play by your rules. i know lots of people that don't want a left over cam. I know lots of people that would be super psyched to give someone their shit back.

so quit your bitching. if you don't want to give his shit back, don't. i think the are more important things to preach about.
matt c.
Joined Nov 19, 2009
93 points
Jul 1, 2014
Here's the thing... different people approach situations differently. If I found this guy's cam, he would be getting it back and he wouldn't have to pay me to do it (outside of shipping obviously... and maybe a 6 pack). I also don't think he would be losing face if he asked me for it back. Nick would clearly keep it. Whatever, I am certainly not judging someone if they decide to keep booty. It most certainly IS booty after all. But I am on the bandwagon of "berating this guy makes you look like a douche". He is making a request, most likely knowing the "rules of the game". Again, not everyone plays by those rules. Calling this guy out just makes you look douchey. gabeschwartz
Joined Mar 20, 2011
0 points
Jul 1, 2014
Sorry if i came off like jerk. I have donated pleanty to the booty gods and of course have had a few come my way. i would not however ask for gear to be returned that I lost due to getting served. I would post up saying. Got schooled yesterday and there is booty up on such and such climb, have at it boys and girls... Nick Goldsmith
Joined Aug 23, 2009
190 points
Jul 1, 2014
Nick Goldsmith wrote:
1 Any gear that you lose due to incompetence, getting spanked, fear, lack of skill , retrete, etc. becomes booty the moment that you give up attempts to recover said gear. The exception would be if you let it be known that were returning the next day at first light to resume recovery attempt. Once you give up on recovery attempts it is in fact BOOTY;) #2 Gear left in the parking lot is lost and found, NOT booty. 3# Any gear left in the process of a rescue is NOT booty and shall be returned to the rightfull owners or next of kin. #4 Finders of booty may offer to return booty to the spanked party but you will lose face if you accept the offer. #5 it is extremly poor form to ask for lost booty to be returned to you. If the finders offer and you refuse the offer and they offer again then you may accept the return of the booty but you will still lose face and owe them a debt of honor. This debt may be eased but not completly erased by a gift of beer. (You and they will know that you are their bitch) It is best to suck it up and just say, hey, thanks for offering but you guys earned it. The booty game is supposed to be fun and a way for strong poor climbers to build their rack at the expense of rich weak climbers. Italic Text As soon as someone gets hurt it is not fun anymore so everyone should pitch in, help out and try to get everyones gear back at the end of the day. The best form is to solo up to snag the booty gear or lead up but rapping in is acceptable provideing that all recovery attemts by the loseing party have been exausted.



Why would gear left in a parking lot be lost and found and not have the same consequences as gear left on a route? I figure that I work too hard for all my shiny pieces of gear to not be organized enough to take one last look around the car.
mediocre
Joined Jul 18, 2013
0 points
Jul 1, 2014
Just trying to be nice about it. the way I origionaly learned it lost gear was probobly booty as well. seemed like BINTD everyone knew the booty rules. the internet age seems to have changed that. Now with all this communication people want their gear back without earning it. Instead of getting the headlamp out and climbing back up there in the dark they go home and post about it. Nick Goldsmith
Joined Aug 23, 2009
190 points
Jul 1, 2014
Nick Goldsmith wrote:
Just trying to be nice about it. the way I origionaly learned it lost gear was probobly booty as well. seemed like BINTD everyone knew the booty rules. the internet age seems to have changed that. Now with all this communication people want their gear back without earning it. Instead of getting the headlamp out and climbing back up there in the dark they go home and post about it.



I can see that. Obviously if theres a bag in a parking lot with a rack, rope, shoes etc etc it would be nice to get it back to the owner. I agree with the internet age though. I've been climbing less than 10 years and it's almost like the booty age is coming to an end.....unless I find it.
mediocre
Joined Jul 18, 2013
0 points
Jul 1, 2014
mediocre wrote:
it's almost like the booty age is coming to an end.....unless I find it.



haha nice
matt c.
Joined Nov 19, 2009
93 points
Jul 1, 2014
I couldn't care less what other folks do but here's what I do. If I find gear in a parking lot I'll leave it there assuming the owner will return. If I find difficult to remove gear on a climb I honestly consider it more like tat or litter than gear. I'll remove it if I can and either toss it in the trash or add it to my rack if its in good shape. The thought of finding its owner and standing in line at the post office has never honestly crossed my mind. I like beer but I guess I dislike post offices more. marty funkhouser
Joined Dec 8, 2007
34 points
Administrator
Jul 1, 2014
Offwidth time
Can someone fill out this thread with rules of replacement when a second can't remove or drops gear when cleaning a route. Luc
From Montreal, Quebec
Joined Nov 27, 2006
7,875 points
Jul 2, 2014
Luc wrote:
Can someone fill out this thread with rules of replacement when a second can't remove or drops gear when cleaning a route.



I would say that if the second drops gear, he/she owes the owner a new piece of gear or whatever the owner thinks is appropriate. I think its a hard call as far as not being able to remove gear. I know I've crammed a couple of pieces of protection in out of desperation that were not the easiest to remove.
mediocre
Joined Jul 18, 2013
0 points
Jul 2, 2014
Me eating a cliff bar walking back from Frankenste...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1QUv4ERvEw

The last piece I tried to booty was a tricam someone must have fell on... No booty for me!
Bill Kirby
From Baltimore Maryland
Joined Jul 21, 2012
127 points
Jul 2, 2014
Rumney
mediocre wrote:
I would say that if the second drops gear, he/she owes the owner a new piece of gear or whatever the owner thinks is appropriate. I think its a hard call as far as not being able to remove gear. I know I've crammed a couple of pieces of protection in out of desperation that were not the easiest to remove.


This. Leader assumes responsibility unless it's dropped. That's why climbers should pick their partners carefully, or place everything such that someone blindfolded could remove it. Gear walking and getting over-cammed is still leader's responsibility. Anytime this is possible I know it when placing it, assuming the risk entirely. Not knowing it's a situation where this can happen is lack of understanding good gear placement, again leader's fault = booty.
Kevin Heckeler
From Upstate New York
Joined Jul 10, 2010
1,497 points
Jul 2, 2014
beer
I always thought a good policy was Leader and second split the cost no matter what: things get dropped, pieces get stuck, shit happens. If something gets lost and the expense is split no fuss no bullshit. Booty is booty, kind of like wild blueberries there for whoever can pick them. beensandbagged
From R.I.
Joined Oct 20, 2013
11 points
Jul 2, 2014
Me eating a cliff bar walking back from Frankenste...
The only partner that's ever dropped something was my wife. Well technically she threw the screw at me.. I wasn't goin ask her to split the cost of a new one if I didnt find it. Bill Kirby
From Baltimore Maryland
Joined Jul 21, 2012
127 points
Jul 2, 2014
+10 :) Nick Goldsmith
Joined Aug 23, 2009
190 points
Jul 2, 2014
beer
Bill Kirby wrote:
The only partner that's ever dropped something was my wife. Well technically she threw the screw at me.. I wasn't goin ask her to split the cost of a new one if I didnt find it.


Yes my policy has a few gaps and may not be wholly applicable when you are sleeping with your climbing partner. That said obviously this is a case were you "screwed" up and have to bare the cost plus.
beensandbagged
From R.I.
Joined Oct 20, 2013
11 points


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