Fairly new to the site and climbing in general. Love the forum, very informative. I am looking for any recommendations on what gear to purchase that would allow me to set top rope anchors on most routes at Devil's Lake.

I am taking an anchors class in the near future, but I am trying to get a handle on what I should expect to pay out for an initial investment.

Thanks in advance.

If you are taking the class from a decent guide service you should learn all you need to know at that time......

As a general rule, a set of stopper (I prefer BD or DMM) some tri-cams and some hexes is all you need. Also about a dozen ovals and maybe 50-100 ft of webbing cut in lengths. If you have this gear, and the right knowledge, you should be able to build a gear anchor on top of any climb at The Lake.....

Calling Jim Ebert!!

On a more serious note, you should probably invest in some static line instead of the webbing - it is typically more versatile, unties easier and will last a long time. You also won't be tempted to use it as a slackline and lose part of your anchor setup. For setting up topropes on natural anchors such as boulders and trees:

~50' of static rope, 10mm
60m climbing rope (for topropes buy a 10mm+ rope)
20' cordalette (7mm cord) for potential belayer anchors (you can use this later)
~6 beefy HMS locking carabiners
belay device and locking carabiner
harness
shoes
helmet
chalkbag
class on building anchors

Also, please use rock anchors whenever possible and not trees. If you do have to use trees for a anchor leg, do NOT girth hitch the tree. It will eventually kill them and there will no longer be vegetation on the top of the cliff line. There are many other ways to anchor around the tree that they will/should teach you in the class.

Please don't call Jim Ebert. Many people have expressed gratitude that his huge groups haven't been seen for some years.

I'm a big fan of cordalette at the Lake. I also use webbing but, and this may sound silly, it doesn't please me aesthetically. Webbing just looks ugly to me. I find that I can simplify my sets just by using one length of webbing and pro in the rocks- usually not with trees, etc. I carry a wide variety of lengths of 7mm cordalette- 15 ft., 25 ft., 30 ft. and that usually can get the job done at about most every area.

I know this is an old thread, but this article supplements the good advice above:

Essential Equipment for Building Top Rope Anchors at Devils Lake

It can be time consuming to gather pricing information when you don't know exactly what you're looking for, so I included a gear list example with pricing as a rough ballpark for those considering the investment.

Any feedback is welcomed and appreciated.

Just an FYI. www.rockandice.com/news/1539-jim-ebert-climber-mountaineer-d>>>

Nick, nice summary. I would put a prominent link to the "Bottom Line" at the top of your article, and maybe a "table of contents" set of links, too.

I have some quibbles (of course!) for you. Ignore any or all of this! I mostly toss it out there for discussion ....

I think your Bottom Line is a great set of gear for *teaching* beginners (and I would include cams in the lesson package), but for beginners to *buy* I would pare it down more: k.i.s.s., and most beginners don't have a huge amount of money and don't know how committed they are to the sport, but mostly k.i.s.s.

I'd skip the tri-cams for a first TR rack, have just two lockers, and use just webbing. Skip slings and cordolettes and static lines. Webbing is cheap, easy to pack, widely available, and plenty durable (more durable than your climbing rope, for instance, the first piece of gear you are likely to replace). And its cheap.

(I use webbing a lot like a cordolette. I find webbing no easier or harder to adjust than anything else. Adjusting the master point is a bit tedious for most beginners ... but time spent mastering this pays HUGE dividends once you start multi-pitch trad climbing. Learning to put the master point *exactly* where you want it is worth the effort!)

I have mixed feelings about recommending hexes for people to buy, especially when I've mostly abandoned using them personally.

I think hexes are a great teaching/learning tool, because they force the beginner to spend a lot of time thinking about the shapes of cracks: tapering cracks, bottoming cracks, bottomless cracks, cracks behind rocks that move, cracks that are nearly parallel-sided, etc. etc. etc. And hexes are light and cheap. I like having them in our Club arsenal because they are cheap and people can practice with them before they go on to buy their own gear. Its cheaper to practice fixing hexes than fixing cams!

(But even in the backcountry I mostly carry cams myself, because they are more versatile. And I'm someone who learned to place hexes before cams had been invented! I'm especially fond of the sound of hexes....)

I'd move all the other gear - slings, cordolettes, static lines (which are darned convenient, but pretty specialized) tri-cams, cams, more 'biners - to the intermediate level, for someone who wants more versatility in TR sets, or (hopefully) someone who is beginning to lead.

Nick, you've got some great photos on your website ... you've especially got some great faces, I'll bet your clients love them!

Thanks for these thoughts Doug, they added valuable perspective for me. And yes, they are excellent discussion points.

After reading your notes, I agree my article is not suited to a beginner on a thin budget... thus the "essential" gear title wasn't accurate (I changed it). One can do a lot with just webbing, nuts, and biners, or simply webbing and biners alone. My bias away from a true KISS kit comes from the crowd I typically work with: folks who 1) have some expendable income, 2) have taken a course or two, and 3) are pretty sure they want to invest in some gear. This is the context in which I usually hear the "What gear do I need?" question.

Your point about this being a good "teaching" kit also resonates. Hexes and Tricams can't be called essential gear, but they offer lots of bang for the buck and beginners gain so much from learning to place them well. Having at least one or the other (hexes are clearly more valuable) helps a beginner have an nut alternative that works where nuts won't.

Love how you describe why hexes are a great teaching tool, regarding thinking about crack geometry... well said. I like students to get a lot of time thinking about this before they get cams in their hands, as it sharpens their minds in a way cam placements don't.

I can understand using webbing like a static line (as you noted), but the big difference is you can't tie a clove hitch in the webbing... which means you can't equalize the anchor in the same way as you can a static line.

You can't tie a clove hitch in webbing because?

You can set most TRs at the lake with just webbing or cord and a few biners. This thread feels like a huge over-complication of a simple concept. You NEED webbing or cord plus 4 biners, otherwise the more gear the better only because it makes set up easier and faster.

My list for a solid DL TR rack:

-One 40ft piece of webbing or cord. Long is good.
-One set of nuts.
-One alpine set of hexs (#6-10, the ones bigger than the biggest nut)
-Two locking biners and four regular ones.
To save some $ cut out the hexs. I could set almost any TR at the lake with this rack.

There's all sorts of wack shit anchors out there and always some crazy over-thought way of doing it. Here's the simple way:

1. Select one-anchor (tree, rock, nut, hex) and connect webbing or cord (doesn't matter which, it really doesn't).

2. Tie one over-hand knot so that it hangs off the edge, then tie another right next to it for redundancy.

3. Hang your rope off that anchor with two locking and opposing biners.

4. Take the remaining cord or webbing (it still doesn't matter which) and pull it back to a second anchor. Clove hitch and adjust or measure to the back of the anchor biner and tie an overhand (the length of a biner is about the amount of webbing or cord that is taken in while tying a knot).

5. Back up your master point with the remaining webbing to a 3rd anchor. DONE!

Probably better to learn this in visual format, but the above will get you there. I think I could teach anyone how to set a TR anchor in 30 minutes or less, so don't waste time or $ on some ridiculous TR anchor class and don't fret as to if you have enough gear or not.

But most importantly DON'T FUCK THIS UP, PEOPLES LIVES DEPEND ON THE ANCHOR! If you're unsure, ask someone.

Jeff - You're correct, there's no reason why you can't tie a clove hitch in 1" tubular. Edited my post accordingly.