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Force generated by funkness device
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Apr 22, 2012
So I was cleaning a stopper (BD #4, 4Kn?) and it refused to come out the way I slotted it in. Ultimately I whipped out the hammer and funkness and started whaling on it. With two jerks it came out in the anticipated direction of pull and the stopper has gouges. So experts, what is the typical force generated by these things? The root of my concern is this was a placement I would have set trad climbing and thought "Bomber Duuude!" so I like ot reevaluate my placement strategy if the funkiness proved my stopper sub par. Amazing Larry
Joined Nov 5, 2011
35 points
Apr 22, 2012
Rock Climbing Photo: About half way up the East Arete on Illumination R...
I just did a lot of guessing at variables and came up with a range of 0.0751kN - 0.10058kN per swing. Gonna depend a lot on how hard you swing, how heavy your arm is, where the balance of the swing arc is exactly... but I don't think even at the highest end of all these, you're gonna bring that number up too much.

So commence doubting


----

Why did you funkness it in the direction of pull, though?
Ben Beckerich
From saint helens, oregon
Joined Jun 24, 2011
272 points
Apr 22, 2012
Rock Climbing Photo: Hanging out with Karin on the summit of Warlock Ne...
It can be very high - it's somewhat common to break a carabiner when funking pitons. Greg Barnes
Joined Apr 10, 2006
1,660 points
Apr 22, 2012
This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project.
Leeroy
Joined Feb 4, 2012
3 points
Apr 22, 2012
Rock Climbing Photo: Elk Range, CO
Leeroy Jenkins wrote:
Yet again the Uber n00b BenB to the rescue with another wrong answer! Maybe sooner or later you'll learn to keep your mouth shut until you've got some actual experience.


He seems to be more well suited to answer the question than you. Struttin around violating Rule #1 = troll. Dont ruin a good thread by being rude this ones actually a bit interesting.
handon broward
From Westminster, CO
Joined Feb 23, 2012
29 points
Administrator
Apr 22, 2012
Rock Climbing Photo: Me and the offspring walking back to the car after...
This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project.
Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Joined Jul 30, 2011
1,181 points
Apr 22, 2012
This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project.
DexterRutecki
From Cincinnati, Ohio
Joined Mar 23, 2012
3 points
Apr 22, 2012
Rock Climbing Photo: About half way up the East Arete on Illumination R...
Yep- my figures are wrong. S'what happens when you try to do complex thought at 2am. I didn't account for the most important part- deceleration.

You gotta figure out how much stretch you get from the cable and how long it takes for the hammer to go from max velocity to stopped, I won't bother to hazard guesses. Since it's all static, you need to be pretty accurate to get an accurate impact force figure.
Ben Beckerich
From saint helens, oregon
Joined Jun 24, 2011
272 points
Apr 22, 2012
Rock Climbing Photo: About half way up the East Arete on Illumination R...
Leeroy Jenkins wrote:
Yet again the Uber n00b BenB to the rescue with another wrong answer! Maybe sooner or later you'll learn to keep your mouth shut until you've got some actual experience.


What experience do I lack to press keys on a calculator?
Ben Beckerich
From saint helens, oregon
Joined Jun 24, 2011
272 points
Apr 22, 2012
I funked becuse I thought nut was gona be junk, so funked the junk. Then I thought no one should grab my nut cause ppl get hurt when its junk and no booty was there to swag. So then I thought well lets bust this nut and thats when I realy funked that junk and I busted my nut. I dont think I'm the type with the kung-fu action grip so I asked the experrrrrtttttssssssss.

Edit: I funked in direction of pull to break it.
Amazing Larry
Joined Nov 5, 2011
35 points
Apr 23, 2012
Ben B. wrote:
What experience do I lack to press keys on a calculator?


Apparently you lack some experience in basic physics. Don't let that get in the way of posting your opinion on anything and everything though.
Leeroy
Joined Feb 4, 2012
3 points
Apr 24, 2012
Rock Climbing Photo: Climber Drawing
So when did climbers get so politically correct that the name became degraded to "funkness" device?
I haven't seen a correct spelling since the eighties.
Tom Hanson
Joined Jan 1, 2001
1,125 points
Apr 24, 2012
Tom Hanson wrote:
So when did climbers get so politically correct that the name became degraded to "funkness" device? I haven't seen a correct spelling since the eighties.



Can you clue us to the former name without undergoing guideline #1 disintegration? :-)
Dave Swink
From Boulder, Co
Joined Jun 14, 2007
43 points
Apr 24, 2012
Rock Climbing Photo: About half way up the East Arete on Illumination R...
Tom Hanson wrote:
So when did climbers get so politically correct that the name became degraded to "funkness" device? I haven't seen a correct spelling since the eighties.


Racist or misogynistic?
Ben Beckerich
From saint helens, oregon
Joined Jun 24, 2011
272 points
Apr 30, 2012
Rock Climbing Photo: Climber Drawing
If memory serves, this contraption was devised by some DLFA affiliates turned wall climbers and DLFA does not signify the Devils Lake Funkness Association. Tom Hanson
Joined Jan 1, 2001
1,125 points
Jun 21, 2012
Rock Climbing Photo: Left to right - me, Sam Adams, Thomas Huber, Alex ...
Funkness devices can easily generate forces in excess of 2000 lbs, so be careful!

BD Peckers have a cable rated for a rather miserable thousand pounds or so, so it easy to break them. You should always use a Screamer when using Peckers, too - they don't tell you this.

You have to be really careful when funking out Peckers - take it easy - finesse, not brute strength. Work the whole piton, not just the cable.

Because funkness devices generate such huge forces, you shouldn't use them for testing aid pieces, because you can easily blow out otherwise good placements. A head might hold only 500 lbs or so, plenty good for body weight, but a funkness test would rip that poor little bugger to shreds.

This is why bounce testing is so much better. It is hard to generate more than 800 lbs force in a very aggressive bounce test, which gives you confidence that your piece is good. Whip on a Screamer and it might even hold a fall.

Incidentally, 1 kN is about 220 lbs-force.

Cheers,
Pete
"Pass the Pitons" Pete Zabrok
From Oakville, Ontario
Joined Dec 8, 2007
640 points
Aug 29, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: North Six Shooter
I just built a funkness for my hammer and was trying to get an idea of how much force I could generate with it. I attached a small loop of 4mm nylon accessory cord (MBS 3.8 Kn), tied with a double fisherman's, before clipping a bolt at home, to see if I could break the loop. I could not break the loop.
I read a pull-test once that reported the breaking strength of nylon cord tied with a DF to be about 80% of double the MBS for that cord. That would be just over 6 Kn for my setup... Either I am incredibly weak, or the reports of funkness device's breaking biners is the result of some strange loading geometries on them (nose-hooking, etc?). My hammer is a little lighter (24 oz) than the BD Yosemite (25 oz) or OP Wall Hammer (32 oz), however.
Has anyone done a more scientific test to determine how much force can be generated with a funkness?
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George Zack
From Grand Junction, CO
Joined Feb 28, 2014
310 points
Aug 29, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: The wife and I road-trippin on the Connie.
Nylon will stretch. It's acting as a shock absorber in your system, dispersing the energy of the hammer swing over a longer time, thus reducing the peak forces. Larry S
From Easton, Pennsylvania
Joined May 28, 2010
936 points
Aug 29, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: The wife and I road-trippin on the Connie.
Also matters what the bolt was in in your test. Any motion or give anywhere in your system reduces the peak forces. As the elasticity in the system approaches zero, the peak force will go to infinity. Larry S
From Easton, Pennsylvania
Joined May 28, 2010
936 points
Aug 30, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: North Six Shooter
Larry S wrote:
Nylon will stretch. It's acting as a shock absorber in your system


That was my fear. I guess a better way to gauge the force would be to use a tiny steel quick-link then. Thanks
George Zack
From Grand Junction, CO
Joined Feb 28, 2014
310 points
Nov 7, 2015
Rock Climbing Photo: Left to right - me, Sam Adams, Thomas Huber, Alex ...
"Has anyone done a more scientific test to determine how much force can be generated with a funkness?"

Yes, actually.

For my very first Dr. Piton column in Rock & Ice Magazine, my editor Duane Raleigh actually went out with a dynomometer [sp?] and did some tests, funking vs. bounce testing.

A good hard bounce-test could generate eight hundred to a thousand pounds, depending on how hard you crash, and how much of a lard-ass you are.

Funking could easily create over two thousand pounds! Hence the reason you rarely funk test aid pieces, with the possible exception of a dodgy hook on a traverse far off to the side of you. Even so, I would still rather slink down, across, and up.


Dr. Piton Big Wall Tip of the Day:

When getting onto a scary not-so-good hook, gently tap on the top of the hook with your hammer as you slowly begin to weight it, to cause the metal to flex into the position it will be in when you fully weight it. This will avoid that somewhat terrifying sensation [and sound!] of the hook flexing and scratching as you get onto it. I call this "Dave Turner-ing" a hook, as I learned the tip indirectly from him.

Certain purists will complain that this may enhance a hook placement, especially if you have sharpened all your hooks like I have.

And to this I say ...


....zzzzzzzz
"Pass the Pitons" Pete Zabrok
From Oakville, Ontario
Joined Dec 8, 2007
640 points


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