First time in Zion

Whats going on people of southern Utah? I was wondering if anyone could offer some advice and answer questions I have about spending my first week in Zion during early April.

Climbing the big walls in ZNP have been a dream for a long time now and Ill finally be visiting the park after years of hopelessly looking at pictures on MP. I'll be traveling with my girlfriend who has zero climbing experience. I plan on teaching her more, but I know i won't be able to fully experience what the park has to offer climbing wise. My first question is there any fun, easy climbs with good exposure that we can get are feet wet with. My first concern is her safety and I would be leading with her following obviously. A route that I like is "led by sheep" on the east side area. I should also add that I have no experience with climbing on sandstone and am nervous that even a 5.7 will scare us. After looking in some info on some routes I found "Adventure Climb" which seems to be what I'm looking for.

Also i was wondering if anyone knew anything about the permit situation with canyoneering/hiking routes like the "Subway." I looked into permits and they seem impossible to get! It seems like there is a lottery system that already has 54 request for May! WTF?? I didn't realize the park got so many visitors.

Thanks in advance. Im really excited about heading over there and I just really want to get on at least one climb while I'm there.

hmmm...I would stay off anything involving "adventure climbing" in Zion or adventure climbing anywhere for that matter, if you're unsure what that means. Friendly advice, especially if you have a partner with zero climbing experience. Might want to head to RR instead of Zion.

This might be more up your ally, and tons of fun, but a bit off the beaten path.

East Ridge

Do you have a standard Zion rack?

and +1 for thinking twice about getting onto Zion "adventure" routes, that usually means dirty, bushy, and wondering. Many of those are fun, but might not be the best intro to the park, or intro to climbing for your girl.

Get a request for a permit in ASAP, especially for the Subway. I applied for one before and got it without any issue, but I'm sure the sooner you apply, the better. Zion Canyoneering has run-downs of the canyons and grades along with fairly detailed descriptions. Might be good to pick up a copy and consider one of the less-popular but still awesome options that the park has. As far as I know, most of the lesser traveled canyons only require registering at the office the day you plan on heading out.

For any canyon that is not popular you can often walk up to the back country desk and get a permit, but it is possible that any canyon can sell out. If your worried about that you can always do canyons that are near-by but not in the park bounds, and no permit is needed. Birch is probably the most popular non-park canyon.

i don't trad climb so i can't say much about the climbing how ever the canyoneering is a different story.

You could probably get standby(late lottery) permits for the subway in april. If you can't I strongly recommend Key Hole and Pine creek as a great substitution, although a little more technical. The two can be easily done in one day. Canyoneeringusa.com has great information about all the canyons in zions. In april i would take a wet-suit for any of the canyons including the subway(you can rent then at a couple of places and neoprene socks are worth the couple of extra bucks). Also i would consider picking up figure 8 belay devices for any serious canyoneering, you will only wear on the 8 and not on the ATC and carabiner.

Led by Sheep would be a great time. Just went up there with the lady a couple of weeks ago. Bombers bolts and a bit bit sandy in spots. Its fun and in a cool part of the park. Must do if you ask me.

jacob m s wrote:Also i would consider picking up figure 8 belay devices for any serious canyoneering, you will only wear on the 8 and not on the ATC and carabiner.

I don't know any "serious" canyoneers who use figure eights. Maybe for rigging contingency anchors quickly, but, not rappelling.

Hmmm...there's issues with using a figure eight, too (and, no one belays with them anymore). They can girth hitch. They'll also twist the rope (and you especially on a free hanging rappel). Some folks use them in "canyon" mode which prevents them from girth hitching. Also, take care using them with any skinny ropes, they don't have as much friction unless rigged accordingly.

In the dry or non flow canyons in Zion, ATCs and the like work great.

Anyhoo...the permit system for canyoning is a pain the butt, but, get up early or go a day ahead. If you're there for the week, mid week in April should be easy. Water will be cold, so, wetsuit for any canyon that holds water should be mandatory.

Take care on the approach to Led By Sheep...those slabs are slick and its not super straightforward to locate the easiest way to the saddle at the start of the climb. The climb is sandy and its not a sport route. Not hard climbing, though. You'll need two 60m ropes to get up and down the route.

If you have some gear, the Cave Route is fun. Gobs of fun sports climbing by St. George if you have to climb. Zion doesn't have a ton of easy stuff.

Chase Bowman wrote:Whats going on people of southern Utah? I was wondering if anyone could offer some advice and answer questions I have about spending my first week in Zion during early April. Climbing the big walls in ZNP have been a dream for a long time now and Ill finally be visiting the park after years of hopelessly looking at pictures on MP. I'll be traveling with my girlfriend who has zero climbing experience. I plan on teaching her more, but I know i won't be able to fully experience what the park has to offer climbing wise. My first question is there any fun, easy climbs with good exposure that we can get are feet wet with. My first concern is her safety and I would be leading with her following obviously. A route that I like is "led by sheep" on the east side area. I should also add that I have no experience with climbing on sandstone and am nervous that even a 5.7 will scare us. After looking in some info on some routes I found "Adventure Climb" which seems to be what I'm looking for. Also i was wondering if anyone knew anything about the permit situation with canyoneering/hiking routes like the "Subway." I looked into permits and they seem impossible to get! It seems like there is a lottery system that already has 54 request for May! WTF?? I didn't realize the park got so many visitors. Thanks in advance. Im really excited about heading over there and I just really want to get on at least one climb while I'm there.

Um, Zion in May might not be the best choice for you, based on what you wrote. At minimum you need to do lots more research on climbing in Zion, climbing on sandstone, and, especially, canyoneering. The Subway is not a beginner trip, it's a long day, and there are significant route-finding challenges.

NOTE: these comments and the excerpts reproduced lower down refer to the full "Subway from the Top" route. There is a non-technical bottom-up version that is significantly easier, but still requires a permit.

From: http://www.citrusmilo.com/zionguide/lowersubway.cfm

"If you want to avoid the swimming and rappelling of the Subway "top-down" route but you still want to see some of the beauty of the Subway, you can hike up the Left Fork from the "bottom." Starting and ending at the Left Fork Trailhead (roughly 8.2 miles up the Kolob Terrace Road from the town of Virgin), this route is a completely non-technical hike up the Left Fork of North Creek to the Subway section (almost 3.3 miles one way). The complete hike may take anywhere between 5 to 9 hours and is a full day in some beautiful remote scenery."

May is also the time it starts getting desperately hot, yet you still might need thick wetsuits in some canyons. Did you read the description here on MP for Led By Sheep? Four long pitches of trad sandstone in the unrelenting sun with multiple 60m rappels to get off is an awful lot for a newbie with zero experience. Do you still want her to be your GF after the trip? Could be an epic adventure (in the good way) or an epic fail.

Not trying to dissuade, but you should really know what you might be getting yourself into. And having known people who got injured or killed while on a rescue of clueless noobs, I'm kinda sensitive to grand ideas by people who may not have the necessary experience base. Your not realizing the popularity of the park is a bit of a red flag. Did you know you won't be able to drive your car in the main canyon at that time of the year?

Read:
The Subway description on canyoneeringusa.

NPS page about The Subway

From the canyoneeringusa entry:
Spring - In Zion, spring occurs sometime in March, April, May or June. For several weeks in that time period, the basin feeding The Subway melts off and The Subway floods, with too much water for safe passage. There is no gauge on the stream so water level information is not available remotely. Winter conditions may apply, and access to the trailhead might be blocked with snow. The route can be difficult to follow if obscured by snow. Snow and ice in the canyon can make downstream travel difficult or impossible! The red ledges at the bottom of The Subway can be slabs of ice requiring crampons.

The Subway is a strenuous and demanding backcountry hike with rappels and swims. Good navigational skills and a map are required - straying into the more difficult terrain on either side of the approach trail, or missing the exit trail, is hazardous. There are three short drops that most people will want a rope for. Folks should know how to rappel, and how to set up and use conspicuous anchors. For the swims, you will need drybags for your gear, and if it is not stinking hot out, you might want a wetsuit.

In the spring of 2011, the melt-off was especially slow, and many parties entered the canyon unprepared for the conditions present, expecting summer conditions despite plain evidence to the contrary. The Backcountry Desk cannot continuously assess conditions in the canyon, so it is up to each party to make a decision, when they arrive at the canyon bottom. ANY flow in the canyon at this point indicates serious Class C technical canyoneering conditions, and parties without sufficient knowledge, experience and equipment will be putting their own, and rescuer's, lives at risk by continuing forward when there is flow in the canyon. Proceeding downcanyon in the face of clear evidence that conditions are beyond your competence is foolish, and likely to result in injury, rescue and a citation for endangering others.

To add another issue, the NPS says:
Note: The Kolob Terrace Road that leads to both entry points of the Left Fork (Subway) will be undergoing major reconstruction from March through the end of October. Three-hour blocks of closures will begin March 2, 2015. Plan accordingly.

Any recommendations for dry canyons? Sorry to hijack the thread but I'll be in Zion around the same time, hopefully the OP can benefit from this. As much as I'd love to do the Subway or any other flowing canyon I think I would rather come back to Zion at a better time of year than deal with the unnecessary risk.

Lodge
Birch
Spry (most of the time)
Behunin (I have no idea how to spell that)

I wouldn't expect Behunin or Spry to be completely dry, but, fairly doable sans wetsuit.

Did Behunin two weekends ago and we had a upper shin deep wade in one spot is all. Artful rappelling can avoid deeper potholes.

Spry has that last hallway pool that's usually fairly deep, but, if its sunny, you hit a nice ledge to warm up on that's south facing.

Led by Sheep is more of a roped scramble than a rock climb, making it a great route to guide a beginner up, assuming you know what you're doing. Just take a handful of alpine draws, 2 ropes, and helmets. You rappel back down the route so it would be super easy to bail if you get a pitch or two up and she's no stoked.