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By Kilroywashere!
From Harrisonburg, Virginia
Nov 16, 2010
Kilroy

a friend of mine once told me of a method for bailing on sport climbs using a fifi with a locker and rapping/lowering off the bolt, sounded pretty dangerous to me so i havent done it, anybody else have any experience? i'd kinda rather leave an old junky biner than fall because a fifi popped...i feel like that'd be a rather embarassing way to go...death by fifi..


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By Rob Alexander
From Alta
Nov 16, 2010
on rappel

im guessing the locker is to keep things safe??

who even has a fifi in the bag while sport climbing anyways???


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By Kilroywashere!
From Harrisonburg, Virginia
Nov 16, 2010
Kilroy

hahha good point rob, and i have no clue who came up with the idea, i just nodded and aggreed


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By Chris Plesko
From Westminster, CO
Nov 16, 2010
OMG, I winz!!!

Just leave 2 biners. Your life has to be worth $5 right? And that's if you can't get them back some other way.


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By Ed Wright
Nov 16, 2010
Magic Ed

Sounds pretty dangerous, but I should talk. I once had to rap off a single piton wedged end-wise in a wide crack--middle of Winter.


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By Kilroywashere!
From Harrisonburg, Virginia
Nov 16, 2010
Kilroy

Chris Plesko wrote:
Just leave 2 biners. Your life has to be worth $5 right? And that's if you can't get them back some other way.

i think its only worth about 3.75 according to some app on facebook but i get your point...


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By slim
Administrator
Nov 17, 2010
tomato, tomotto, kill mike amato.

the thing with jamming 2 biners in a hanger is that it might kind of hose the next guy. the fifi trick isn't all that new.


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By Adam Winters
Administrator
From the Shire
Nov 17, 2010
Red-tail Hawk, Buttermilks

where does the locker come into play?? why wouldn't you just use the locker?


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By Ol' Toby
From WA
Nov 17, 2010
A brilliant climb.

This thread has some related info: www.mountainproject.com/v/trad_climbing/trick_to_pulling_a_f>>>

and this video illustration of the technique makes my stomach turn.


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By Brendan Blanchard
From Strafford, NH
Nov 17, 2010
Obi Wan Ryobi - Darth Vader Crag, Rumney NH

I think that's about as safe as using the 'Highwayman's Hitch' on a tree to rap down. Pull this one...but if you pull the other line...well you die.

Forget the fact that you're relying on a single bolt, and if there wasn't fixed gear, he left slings and a biner up there anyway....


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By Brent Apgar
From Out of the Loop
Nov 17, 2010
Me and Spearhead

Holy crap, and I get tense about unweighting the rope during a simul-rap.


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By doligo
Nov 17, 2010
Jose Cuervo Fruitcups dirtbag style

Isn't fifi hook more expensive than a pair of biners or a locking biner?


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By J. Thompson
From denver, co
Nov 17, 2010
Trundling a death block. Photo by Dan Gambino.

dolgio wrote:
Isn't fifi hook more expensive than a pair of biners or a locking biner?


You don't leave it behind.

The idea is that you can flip it off the hanger.

Cassin used to make a cool fifi witha small addition eyelet on the opposite side of the bigger one. These kind of shenangins were the reason for that eyelet. Well and hauling witht he bag hanging off a fifi.

The fifi was shaped with a much deeper "hook" than alot of whats available now.

I'm not running out to do this...but I don't see it as too big of a deal.
Maybe I've just rapped off to many shady alpine anchors?

josh


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By Robert Buswold
From Longmont, CO
Nov 17, 2010
Clear Creek Canyon, Capitalist Crag

I see this as being a very last resort, but if you have a biner, just leave the damned biner.


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By Brian in SLC
Nov 17, 2010
Climbing in Smuggler's Notch

J. Thompson wrote:
Cassin used to make a cool fifi witha small addition eyelet on the opposite side of the bigger one. These kind of shenangins were the reason for that eyelet.


Nah, I don't think so. Most of the traditional style fifi hooks were made for aid climbing. And, not the Yosemite style of aid, but, European style, from back in the 50's, give or take. If you look at older instructional books, you'll see ol' Ghastly Rubberfat aiding by moving a ladder of steps from piece to piece. The aid ladders hang off a fifi hook. The keeper string was attached to the small hole in the top. They'd climb up the ladder, then, just pull up on the keeper to take the ladder off the piece and either replace it on the next piece, or, let 'er dangle.

I always hesitate to mention the fifi hook method of rappelling single strand, and, still being able to get your rope down (similar to bailing off a sport route). The hook I used was a Pika Aardvark, which, if you cracked the whip on the rope at all, would dislodge the hook from a ring or hanger very easily. Verm made hooks that worked ok for this too, but, the Pika one was super sweet. Sorta solid when you weighted it, and, very easy to pull down. As in, yikes.

If were me, I'd leave a bail biner, or, even a quick draw (maybe have one you carry as a "leaver" for just this purpose).


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By doligo
Nov 17, 2010
Jose Cuervo Fruitcups dirtbag style

J. Thompson wrote:
You don't leave it behind. The idea is that you can flip it off the hanger. Cassin used to make a cool fifi witha small addition eyelet on the opposite side of the bigger one. These kind of shenangins were the reason for that eyelet. Well and hauling witht he bag hanging off a fifi. The fifi was shaped with a much deeper "hook" than alot of whats available now. I'm not running out to do this...but I don't see it as too big of a deal. Maybe I've just rapped off to many shady alpine anchors? josh


I see. Yeah, I don't see it being big of a deal on a single pitch overhanging sport route where potential fall distance is not that big. Still, like others mentioned, if you have a biner, leave the biner. Even you fall few feet and get a tiny foot tweak, it's not worth few bucks you save for not leaving a biner...


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By J. Thompson
From denver, co
Nov 17, 2010
Trundling a death block. Photo by Dan Gambino.

Brian in SLC wrote:
Nah, I don't think so. Most of the traditional style fifi hooks were made for aid climbing. And, not the Yosemite style of aid, but, European style, from back in the 50's, give or take. If you look at older instructional books, you'll see ol' Ghastly Rubberfat aiding by moving a ladder of steps from piece to piece. The aid ladders hang off a fifi hook. The keeper string was attached to the small hole in the top. They'd climb up the ladder, then, just pull up on the keeper to take the ladder off the piece and either replace it on the next piece, or, let 'er dangle.


Hey Brian.

I remember that method. I've occasionaly still seen some Euros use it.

I spaced it when thinking about my above response. Thanks for pointing it out.
I've seen canyoneers use that Eyelet for a very thin cord that they use to "pop" the fifi off.
I've also seen Big wall soloists use it to tie a Prussic to the haul line and then counterweight haul when Rapping. Which is pretty sketch!

Anyway...thanks for the oldschool Euro reminder!

josh


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By Chris Plesko
From Westminster, CO
Nov 17, 2010
OMG, I winz!!!

slim wrote:
the thing with jamming 2 biners in a hanger is that it might kind of hose the next guy. the fifi trick isn't all that new.


One biner each on 2 bolts. Or just one biner period on one hanger if you want to trust a single piece. Is it likely a bolt will break? Heck no. But personally if I'm bailing then I care a lot more about my life than I do about 2 leaver biners.

And I've rapped off mank when I had no choice, that doesn't mean I want to do it again.


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By Woodchuck ATC
Nov 17, 2010
Rock Wars, RRG, 2008

Chris Plesko wrote:
One biner each on 2 bolts. Or just one biner period on one hanger if you want to trust a single piece. Is it likely a bolt will break? Heck no. But personally if I'm bailing then I care a lot more about my life than I do about 2 leaver biners. And I've rapped off mank when I had no choice, that doesn't mean I want to do it again.

???on 2 bolts? I'm mid route bailing off the route, or is this at some strange double bolted mid route anchor point? Or am I leaving one clipped to the next lower bolt as a 'backup'? Confused. I was also guessing 2 biners jammed in one bolt hanger.


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By justin dubois
From Estes Park
Nov 17, 2010
Lost Cities 5.12a,Black Canyon,CO

The main advantage I see from the technique in the video is rapping 60/70m with one cord.


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By Tyson Anderson
From Las Vegas, NV
Nov 17, 2010
Rapping from the top of Cat in the hat

I prefer to tie a sheepshank knot and cut the middle strand. You just have to make sure you keep even tension on the knot or you will go for a ride...



/s


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By Chris Plesko
From Westminster, CO
Nov 17, 2010
OMG, I winz!!!

next one on the way down as you pull the draws so you're backed up. i'd think i was an idiot but I've seen it done that way a lot. IE routes with 2 random biners on two consecutive bolts just left there. Well I guess I could still be an idiot...


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By J.J
Nov 18, 2010

Woodchuck ATC wrote:
Or am I leaving one clipped to the next lower bolt as a 'backup'?

That's what I pictured.


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By Andrew Mertens
From Hanover, NH
Nov 18, 2010
Katahdin from the knife ridge.

If its a well bolted sport route with easy climbing to the first bolt, how about down-whipping? Just fall between the bolts until you get to the last one, then unclip and down climb. Seems safer to me than the fifi hook if you are unwilling to leave a biner.


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By Ty Meadows
From Moab, UT
Nov 18, 2010
hellvis

Andrew Mertens wrote:
If its a well bolted sport route with easy climbing to the first bolt, how about down-whipping? Just fall between the bolts until you get to the last one, then unclip and down climb. Seems safer to me than the fifi hook if you are unwilling to leave a biner.



Down whipping!!! No thanks! A bail biner sounds much safer.


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By sunder
From Alsip, Il
Nov 18, 2010
ICE PIT 2011

Wow!!! Yeah last and final resort for me! I am all about the bail biner or trailing a 2nd rope.

I Cant imagine rappealling down a route that has a couple of ledges. Accidental standing and unweighting the rope a little and POP!!! Here comes your rope! And your stuck on the ledge.

What are those fifi hooks rated for? i cant imagine more that 3-5kn.


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