Faster rappelling in the Gunks

Hello Everyone,
Maybe it's just the tedious nature of setting up rappels, but making two or three rappels at the Gunks always seems so time consuming to me. Does anyone have experience with bringing along a tagline for the purpose of making a single rappel to the ground? I can think of a few places where this would work really well, such as the Madame G's and High E rap stations (doubling up ropes with other parties and making a single rap is pretty common there anyway). However, I can imagine that this would not work so well if a single rappel would take you over ledges with trees (bigger chance to get your rope stuck) or if the top rap station is above popular routes. What are some other issues that you could foresee?
Thanks!

Bob Johnson wrote:What are some other issues that you could foresee?

I used to climb at the Gunks quite often, and I was never once tempted to carry a second rope for rappelling. The annoyance of climbing with a second rope far outweighs that of making an extra rap or two. If you are efficient at the anchors, you will lose less time doing the extra rappels than you would in dealing with tagline tangles, flaking/coiling two ropes, and climbing slower with the extra rope weight.

Make sure you know where the middle of your rope is. Have the first person down start threading the rope through the anchor as soon as they are safe. Pull the rope as soon as the second person is anchored. One person pulls, the other person continues feeding the rope. As soon as the middle hits the chains, the person feeding can thread the rope through their rap device and get ready to go.

Climb on doubles in the gunks. Madame g's in one pitch on the way up and on the way down ;)

Not all raps in the Gunks can be done with two ropes to the ground, or done without getting caught up when pulling the ropes. I know of a few instances where climbers I know had ropes get caught up.

I had the same thoughts about bringing a tag line, and after doing some in the field testing, generally opt to just climb with one rope. As Sean explained, knowing the most efficient means of getting the rope ready for the next rap shaves off a lot of time. For me, climbing is as much about (proper) rope management as it is going up the rock.

Doubles can be very handy on many Gunks routes due their wandering nature. If I were hoping to save the most time that would be it - saves linking pitches on the way up, and potentially skipping a rap station on the way down.

I can't think of any raps where double 70s WON'T reach the ground. Even from the top of No Glow, which I think is the highest part of the cliff you can still get to the ground in one.

If double ropes sound like a pain, consider simul-rappeling. Saves a lot of time of having to shout commands and wait for your partner to rappel ahead of you. I only climb on a single line and haven't really had any issues, even with meandering pitches or linking pitches.

However, you have to be very very careful with it and I would not recommend it to someone inexperienced or unfamiliar with the terrain...usually I only simul-rappel with someone roughly my weight, and usually one or both of us is on a gri-gri.

Walk off. Faster, safer

PeterW wrote:I can't think of any raps where double 70s WON'T reach the ground. Even from the top of No Glow, which I think is the highest part of the cliff you can still get to the ground in one.

That's assuming the OP has/is using (2) 70m ropes.

Eric Engberg wrote:Walk off. Faster...

That's debatable.

john2.71 wrote:We timed it a few years ago. The walk-off is a no-brainer south of Madame Grunnebaum's Wulst, it's much faster. It's a wash if you're near Arrow, but only if you don't have to wait for another party at any point. North of Arrow, the walk-off takes too long (Roger's Escape Hatch). We also found that single-rope rappels are faster than double-rope rappels (which was surprising.) Rappelling gives you more rest time, though.

Interesting! Does this time also include the amount of time to walk back to the base of the route (assuming that's where you left your stuff)?

Dave Schultz wrote:The tag weights like 3 or 4 pounds, and either just sits in my pack or is clipped to a harness. If the added few pounds slows your climbing down, you've got other problems.

Yeah, I was thinking the follower could bring it up :-) Otherwise, I think the time saved in rappelling would be washed out by the time spent with rope management at the belays.

john2.71 wrote:We timed it a few years ago. The walk-off is a no-brainer south of Madame Grunnebaum's Wulst, it's much faster. It's a wash if you're near Arrow, but only if you don't have to wait for another party at any point. North of Arrow, the walk-off takes too long (Roger's Escape Hatch). We also found that single-rope rappels are faster than double-rope rappels (which was surprising.) Rappelling gives you more rest time, though.

Pretty much matches my experiences. Of course I started there 40+ years ago when walking off was the norm. I know how to do it.

No routes in the gunks require a 70m rope, unless you are tryin to be a weenie and hog some classic by tr gangbanging it (son of easy o comes to mind),there are a couple raps where it can be useful though in getting you from the gt ledge to the ground, that being said it still isn't worth it to me to deal with even an extra 10meters of rope at a belay.Never would I consider a 75m tag and 70 m rope for climbing anywhere esp at the gunks (basically a 2 pitch crag), I'm with Sean on this one work on being efficient with your rope skills and you will get as much climbing in a day as you will be able to handle.Or you can be a gear geek and carry a double rack and 145m of cord around with you that in some ways will I guess make you stronger.

john2.71 wrote: Most do not, but there are a few rappels that a 60m won't reach, while a 70m does. Also, there are a few where you can skip the first short rappel if you have a 70m (Arch? Maria? I don't recall.)

Asphodel/Credibility Gap

Climb with one 60m rope. Tie it to rap anchor. Climber raps single cord back to the ground, gets 2nd rope out of the pack and ties it to the bottom of rap line. Climber on ledge pulls rope up til knot is at the anchor and raps. Pull rope down.

I never carry or trail an extra rope at the Gunks.

I agree with Sean and his tips.

Rap to next anchor and thread immediately. Pull and go. Make sure the middle is marked. Sharpie TEC pen is the same as those fancy rope pens, or just buy a rope pen. I like to mark a meter of rope. So a few dashes. this makes it easier to see than a tiny little middle mark.

Btw, this method also works with two ropes tied together. As soon as I hit the anchor I thread the pull strand when we start pulling it goes through the next anchor. Reduces tangles and speeds things up.

All that said, I always climb on doubles in the gunks. If you don't like doubles, why not twins? IMO, the gunks are well suited for doubles, especially routes under 5.8 (most of the routes ive led). This is because they tend to find weaknesses in the fairly steep and featured cliffs and wander quite a bit, making two ropes reduce rope drag quite a bit. And, with two ropes you can often rap top to bottom on a single rappel.

Basically, if I'm carrying two ropes, I'd rather have two 8mm doubles.

I can sympathize with the annoyance of doing multiple rappels to get down at the Gunks. I therefore make as few rappels as possible and have found many places in both the Trapps and the Nears to hit the ground with two ropes or rappel to down-climbable territory. I don't see climbing with two ropes as a hassle either. Due to the traversey-overhanging nature of many Gunks routes, using doubles is often preferable anyway. It's safer, and allows you to bring up two seconds at once.

Been climbing at the Gunks for 20 years now, and I have always used 60m rope. My suggestion is learn where all of the rap stations are, and get comfortable practicing efficient rappel techniques with one rope. Traveling fast and light at the Gunks is strategic.

BASE

john2.71 wrote:We timed it a few years ago. The walk-off is a no-brainer south of Madame Grunnebaum's Wulst, it's much faster. It's a wash if you're near Arrow, but only if you don't have to wait for another party at any point. North of Arrow, the walk-off takes too long (Roger's Escape Hatch). We also found that single-rope rappels are faster than double-rope rappels (which was surprising.) Rappelling gives you more rest time, though.

What's the walkoff for Madame G's? I did this Sunday near the Snooky's area and ended up just walking back to the uberfall descent path as I didn't know a closer walkoff.

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