Word up. The Gunks has far more bolts, pitons and pins on one route than I've seen on all of Connecticut's Pinnacle Rock and Ragged Mountain combined. In fact I've never seen a pin, bolt or piton at either of these locations. Dont' forget u can always make a gear anchor for TR as long as you know what ur doing.

I hope CT stays the way it is. Given that the Gunks now has people top roping classic leads like Son of Easy O on weekends- both pitches no less - anything that puts the brakes on convenience and entitlement is a good thing IMHO.

to me it seems that trees getting choked out will "put the brakes on convenience and entitlement" to all CT climbers someday. maybe not.

Did someone say they needed a static line?

Here are a few routes that are difficult if not impossible to TR:
Knight's Move
Wimpy Wampy Wumpy
Great Expectations (Maybe?)

There is another line at left of Great Expectations I cannot remember that would require a lead.

1 traversing route at Green Wall.

Some classics in there...

-percious

ehem.

I never said these routes needed bolts... It is simple enough to head back to a nearby tree or find a gear anchor. If you have a #6 camalot there is a perfect anchor at the top of Knights move; not that you want to carry it all the way up there! These routes are not top-ropable because they traverse a considerable amount, not because they lack sufficient anchors. For the most part everything in CT is TRable.

Question. Do we really want to put bolts at the top of our climbs? Do we really want to make the cliffs that accessible? Is it worth it to have the set up a little more difficult? I think so.

-chris

--edited for clarification--

The majority of my climbing has been done in CT. I just moved out west a month ago, but I have deep routes in CT, I will be back, at the very least to visit.

Yep, the trees will get choked out. Planting new ones is probably more effort than its worth because they will likely not grow in a party-trample environment.

I guess the simple answer is that if you want it changed, join the RMF and start going to the meetings. Take ownership of the cliff and you suddenly have an impact. You may also try rustling the feathers over at www.ctclimbers.com .

If you wanted to see bolts at Pinnacle, you might consider contacting the land owner for that crag. You may also be able to sway the governments that control East Peak.

I think the issue is that putting up any bolts creates a slippery slope. Believe me, you don't want the CT crags becoming outdoor gyms, like many of the crags are here in CO.

As for Ken chopping his own bolts. I believe he started with other people's bolts (Obsession comes to mind). And for consistency he probably decided that he should get rid of his own. Ken is a weird egg though...

Anyway. Many things in the east are the way the are because they are the way they have always been. If you want to change that you might consider a change of scenery.

-percious

The lack of bolts in CT does not limit anyone's climbing. Top roping is way too rampant and does not need to be made any easier for climbers too lazy or too unskilled to lead the numerous, quality and protectable climbs that exist in the state.
Beginners can easily and cheaply buy very long slings to safely rig top ropes to learn climbing. Bolted covenience belays are not needed for this.

Again to keep things on track we are taking the Lorax argument here. The trees are getting killed.

I grew up in branford ct on 2 acres that border expanses of land trust (quarry preserve and westwoods) since I was a little kid I would walk around these woods. I have seen disease and insects wipe out thousands of trees back there. The westwoods now look nothing like they did 10 years ago b/c of an agressive hemlock plight. Now, what white blood cells are to you, bark is to a tree. You are taking that trees ability to stay healty away!

So, you all are saying we should just kill all the trees and then if you can't place gear at the top to build an anchor the route is done? You can say whatever you like about the front range being an outdoor climbing gym, but the only reason for that is not the anchors. It's the inspiration of massive cliffs and slabs being all around you. A bigger flame attracts more moths. I sold climbing gear in ct for 6 years and I can assure you all that people are not going to get all crazed about climbing just b/c of a few anchors. Our bottom line climbing sales were downright pitiful. Technical hardgoods are of little interest to the ct consumer. North Face Denali jackets is what the average outdoor store in ct puts bread on their table with If you put a trendy martini bar w/ gelato at the crag maybe you'll get crowd, but until then I think your overcrowding worries are petty at best. Access is what you should concern yourselves with.

So back on track, evolve or lose it. Maybe you won't be around to see those trees die, but future generations will be. Maybe they won't be too "trad" to bolt anchors.

I'm just going to assume(and hope to believe) that the issue on bolts is purely an access issue in the NE. I still dont get it and maybe talking about it is even a bad thing for access reasons(not being on public land?) . I dont know.

maybe nobody in the east even reads this website. they will soon because it is the best site for everything climbing related in the US, especially if you travel any.

At least two locals (easterners)responded to this thread but you are right this is not a website that seems to be frequented by many easterners. It appears to be largley western. You are better off posting on rockclimbing.com for eastern issues. Bolting is specific to each area as is access but if you compare whole regions like east versus west then I think you can safely make the generalization that bolts are not as readily accepted here as they are out west.

Mobley wrote: I'm just going to assume(and hope to believe) that the issue on bolts is purely an access issue in the NE. I still dont get it and maybe talking about it is even a bad thing for access reasons(not being on public land?). I dont know.

maybe nobody in the east even reads this website. they will soon because it is the best site for everything climbing related in the US, especially if you travel any.

Daniel,

..."The fear of Ken is the reason for bolts not being readily accepted."

Wow that is an over generalization and a bit presumptious. There are lots of old trad climbers (me included) in the east that do not fear Ken, are not zealots (i.e. nuts) like Ken, but still believe that bolts should be limited. I now a lot of climbers who, like me, believe tht putting in some top rope anchors to save some trees is resonable but grid bolting the Gunks is not. There are lots of climbers here that do not want eastern crags to look like the Black Corridor at Red Rocks.

Brian

Daniel,
I think we are more in agreement than disagreement. I'm all for putting bolted top-rope anchors where needed to protect trees. Ragged Mountain comes to mind. Almost everyone agrees Ken is a jerk and does not represent most trad climbers. But I do not want all eastern crags to become Rumney's either. Would I smash a bolt? You betcha. If someone put a bolt on a long established trad line than me and a bunch of others I know would remove it. That is exactly what happened on Thin Air at Catheral Ledge a year or so ago that sparked a bolting controversy in North Conway. The east being more trad than the west has more to do with tradition (sic) than just Ken. Places like the Daks and NH have remained trad due to local ethics rather than Ken who has had little influence in those places.
Brian

the premise of the thread is anchors only BTW

it has nothing to do with bolting existing routes(which has been mentioned a few times), besides, maybe ken will come around again after he has another epiphany that tells him to grid bolt his old routes... wouldnt that be hilarious.

ken was a heck of a climber in his day thats for sure. ballsy as hell from the routes I've seen.

Bolted anchors would be nice at most of our crags, but let's face it, it is CT, we only went above 55mph on the highway a couple of years ago, give it time...
Mobes, I should have tagged along to the Gunks with you today, weather held out- I did get to that place we were at last week with my solo tr set up. I anchored to an attached mini fridge size block for my anchor, I guess that can come off the list of routes to bolt.

Precious and Dan, you guys bailed on CT for ColoRADo, your opinion is no longer valid here:) Hope all is well!

Jim