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Dec 16, 2010
Tim Hadfield wrote:
When a first ascent party wants to make a route safer for the climber at that climbs' grade, what's the problem? Who says you have to clip bolts when they are there.


OK smart guy, how about if the bolts aren't added by the FA party?

How about if only 1 of the FA party wants to add bolts and the other(s) don't?

How about if the FA party is ded?

Down with PUSSIFICATION!
Murf
Joined Jan 1, 2002
2,474 points
Dec 16, 2010
Ryan Kelly wrote:
Nice job Tim, I was worried this thread was dying out. Your post should ensure this goes for another 4 or 5 pages at least.


Just because you can't handle helping me clean up DC "Ryan", don't freak out on people who care.
Murf
Joined Jan 1, 2002
2,474 points
Dec 16, 2010
Leave it to the ColoRADans to bring the RAD weak sauce. Thanks Tim, we were running low. Maybe we can designate someone to hold your hand on the approach too.

Chop all fairy bolts.
Will S
From Joshua Tree
Joined Nov 15, 2006
1,262 points
Dec 16, 2010
Easy stuff at Rifle
murf, I can't understand why this climb, that is obviously well below your climbing ability, Has gotten you all worked up. Let the newer climber have some fun. Although Reading this thread has been entertaining! Tim Hadfield
From Steamboat Springs, Co
Joined Sep 27, 2009
831 points
Dec 16, 2010
...
Can't confirm at this time. But got a call to inform me that Murf has indeed gone out and again "CHOPPED" the bolts on Double Cross...

What the fuk dude?

Why don't you just leave that route alone?
Locker
From Yucca Valley, CA
Joined Oct 13, 2002
2,381 points
Dec 16, 2010
Puffy jackets and Happy Boulders
Tim Hadfield wrote:
murf, I can't understand why this climb, that is obviously well below your climbing ability, Has gotten you all worked up. Let the newer climber have some fun. Although Reading this thread has been entertaining!

Because of Joshua Tree's proximity to Los Angeles, there is an ever increasing swarm of new climbers who make their way out into the desert. However, the vast majority of them are instantly killed when they try to lead Double Cross. Without Double Cross the whole park would be overrun by noobs almost overnight. And then where are all those noobs going to go toprope and hangdog come summertime? Yosemite? The Needles??! You see, this isn't a just a fight for Double Cross, but for all climbs everywhere.
Bryan G
From Yosemite
Joined Nov 17, 2007
4,664 points
Dec 16, 2010
Bad info Locker. It's raining up there, I just got back down to town and just as the rain started there was someone hangdogging on the second bolt as I was driving out.

Murf, get to work.
Will S
From Joshua Tree
Joined Nov 15, 2006
1,262 points
Dec 16, 2010
Locker wrote:
Can't confirm at this time. But got a call to inform me that Murf has indeed gone out and again "CHOPPED" the bolts on Double Cross... What the fuk dude? Why don't you just leave that route alone?


Murf is on some big "end pussification" ego trip. Violence, directed his way, may be the only way to put a stop to this without all the bolts in the park getting the chop.

Just FYI, I hear that squeeze job Hatfields and McCoys is next on his list.
Snupe
From SoCak
Joined Jun 6, 2010
26 points
Dec 16, 2010
Bob Packwood wrote:
Advocating violence? Pretty sure you just went on the no-fly list.


No fly list? Clearly you have never seen snupe climb. If it weren't for those bolts, one of the corpses might me his.
caughtinside
From Oakland CA
Joined Nov 21, 2006
1,896 points
Dec 16, 2010
Bob Packwood wrote:
Advocating violence? Pretty sure you just went on the no-fly list.


Sometimes violence is the only way to stop people like murf. Chopping the double cross bolts is one thing, but the fact that he chopped the anchors on the Mo? That's fucked up. And if the rumors about Figures are true ...
Snupe
From SoCak
Joined Jun 6, 2010
26 points
Dec 16, 2010
This f-ing blows. I was planning on waiting in line to climb DC this weekend. Now not only will the bolts be gone, but the rock is going to be wet too. Fuk! Hope the rubber on my evolv Pontas will stick. Cho
Joined Dec 16, 2010
8 points
Dec 16, 2010
n cascades
I don't think that the bolts on this route change anything one way or the other. As far as I know, those that have fallen and died fell higher up and may have died bolts or no bolts. If it were up to me, I would say no bolts on the route... but it's not up to me. It's also not up to Murf or anyone with a drill. The fact that bolts keep appearing means someone really wants them there, and the fact that they keep disappearing means someone really wants them gone. Those who would either bolt or chop are overstepping their rightful place. It's not up to you. No one elected the bolter the protector of the climbers, and no one elected the chopper the protector of the rock. There are rules in place in JT regarding bolts, basically let the old ones stay but don't add new ones. In my opinion, the person who chops DC is enforcing the parks rules, and in this rare occasion, is doing the right thing. The person who chops Big Moe, however, is tampering with an existing and uncontroversial ethic, and is flat wrong. Jesse Davidson
From san diego, ca
Joined May 30, 2007
71 points
Dec 16, 2010
Snupe wrote:
Sometimes violence is the only way to stop people like murf. Chopping the double cross bolts is one thing, but the fact that he chopped the anchors on the Mo? That's fucked up. And if the rumors about Figures are true ...


What is this about Figures? Is there a rumor that someone chopped Figures on a Landscape??? I certainly hope not. That is a climb that I'd love to do some day when I have more mental control.
RandyR
Joined Dec 17, 2009
38 points
Dec 16, 2010
Russ
RandyR wrote:
What is this about Figures? Is there a rumor that someone chopped Figures on a Landscape??? I certainly hope not. That is a climb that I'd love to do some day when I have more mental control.


supertopo.com/climbing/thread....

Sounds like it was led on gear before some pussies bolted it. If that is the case, a thorough and resounding chopping is or was on the menu.
Russ Walling
From www.FishProducts.com
Joined Oct 5, 2004
3,276 points
Dec 16, 2010
My kinda simian
Jesse Davidson wrote:
There are rules in place in JT regarding bolts, basically let the old ones stay but don't add new ones.


They're more like guidelines.
Ryan Kelly
From work.
Joined Oct 10, 2006
3,262 points
Dec 16, 2010
Thanks Murf! I hope its true that the bolts are gone. Krieghoff
Joined Oct 20, 2009
13 points
Dec 16, 2010
Krieghoff wrote:
Thanks Murf! I hope its true that the bolts are gone.


Don't encourage his vigilante behavior. You may find a route you like gets chopped.
caughtinside
From Oakland CA
Joined Nov 21, 2006
1,896 points
Dec 16, 2010
Krieghoff wrote:
Thanks Murf! I hope its true that the bolts are gone.


I did not get around to these bolts yet. If they are gone, you can thank one of the many other Hero's who are keeping climbing real! If not, Saturday AM they will be gone!
Murf
Joined Jan 1, 2002
2,474 points
Dec 16, 2010
I have to agree with Russ about the ever growing memorials at the base of the route.

I almost caught my pant leg on fire trying to access the climb over Thanksgiving due to all the burning Jesus candles for the dozens who have perished on DC in the past few months. Just trying to get over those and onto the climb was practically a crux in and of itself.

And the jackrabbits are starting to eat at the plastic flowers and getting sick.

Think of the wildlife people.
ClimberB
Joined Dec 16, 2010
16 points
Dec 16, 2010
KC on Fields (medium).  Photo (c) Doug Shepherd
Tony B wrote:
Hi Kevin, I'm not a local and not taking a position on Double cross at this time, but I will inject a point here...


Tony, sorry I've not checked the thread in a couple of days. My only point is that if everyone fiercely defends the FAs right to forever prohibit bolts in the face of pressure to add, then they also have to support the FA's right to approve addition in the face of pressure to not.

This inconsistency simply proves that, at their core, anti-retro-bolters don't actually give a damn about FA prerogatives; they care about proving how manly they are by engaging in the "dangerous sport of rock-climbing" and by having led a notorious climb. No one appears to have recognized this point, so I thought I'd make it a bit clearer.

You're usually all about sticking to the point and avoiding straw men, so why not be consistent there too. I'm not talking about retro-bolts that have been in place for a long time. Talking about the FA's support of adding one or more bolts that aren't there now.

As an aside, I bet the ARBs are also against seat belts and air bags and anti-lock brakes etc. After all, no one HAS to drive just no no one HAS to lead DC and our grandpappies drove just fine without all them new fangled sayftee deevahsus.
Kevin Craig
Joined Mar 20, 2002
448 points
Dec 16, 2010
caughtinside wrote:
Don't encourage his vigilante behavior. You may find a route you like gets chopped.


First he came for Double Cross, and I didn't speak up because I had already climbed Double Cross.

Then he came for Big Mo, and I didn't speak up because I'm too weak and it's in the shade anyway.

Then he came for Loose Lady, and by that time there was no one was left to speak up because they were all dead and rotting at the base of Double Cross.

And that, my friends, is why Murf is a Spiritual Crime.
Captain Fastrousers
From Pasadena, CA
Joined Jan 26, 2009
1 points
Dec 16, 2010
I stumbled across this thread and after nearly pissing myself from excessive laughter I finally had to sign up for an account so that I could participate in this very important thread.

Bravo. Keep up the great work gentleman.
Trasgo
Joined Dec 16, 2010
1 points
Dec 16, 2010
Russ
Captain Fastrousers wrote:
First he came for Double Cross, and I didn't speak up because I had already climbed Double Cross. Then he came for Big Mo, and I didn't speak up because I'm too weak and it's in the shade anyway. Then he came for Loose Lady, and by that time there was no one was left to speak up because they were all dead and rotting at the base of Double Cross. And that, my friends, is why Murf is a Spiritual Crime.


+5
Russ Walling
From www.FishProducts.com
Joined Oct 5, 2004
3,276 points
Dec 16, 2010
Captain Fastrousers wrote:
Murf is a Spiritual Crime.


As far as I can tell, Murf is simply attempting to maintain the spirit in which the route was originally FAed. I'm not sure where the criminal part comes into play...
twinAgent
Joined Dec 15, 2010
0 points
Dec 16, 2010
twinAgent wrote:
I'm not sure where the criminal part comes into play...


If you need to ask the question, you won't understand the answer. It's something undefinable, which only that elite who have survived Double Cross can truly appreciate.
Captain Fastrousers
From Pasadena, CA
Joined Jan 26, 2009
1 points


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