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Nov 13, 2013
Murf's is old news he hasn't chopped anything in years. He is like "Dread Pirate Roberts" it will be interesting to see who takes his place. The old JT Rock Police all got skin cancer or worst and they don't get out much anymore. There is a New Sheriff in town! Tradman
From Lake Forest
Joined May 7, 2012
3 points
Nov 13, 2013
Russ
I was just painting up a batch of convenience anchors, ready to be deployed.... and then Murf just happened to come over... that was awkward. Russ Walling
From www.FishProducts.com
Joined Oct 5, 2004
3,276 points
Nov 13, 2013
...
"Murf's is old news he hasn't chopped anything in years".



The good old days. I miss them. I feel bad for Murf. Dude lost his chopping MoJo.
Locker
From Yucca Valley, CA
Joined Oct 13, 2002
2,394 points
Nov 14, 2013
can't wait to go back and fist it. Max Supertramp
Joined Mar 21, 2008
72 points
Nov 14, 2013
Spaghetti and Chili on the lieback!
I'm usually against removing of bolts and don't really like Murf but this one needs to be removed the new generation of gym climbers who don't own a rack or who don't want to learn trad properly will get lazy next thing you know sail away, white lightning and all the beginning classics will have a line of bolts up the route.... Jeff Scofield
From Yorba Linda, CA
Joined Aug 17, 2011
205 points
Nov 14, 2013
Russ
White Lightning has had a bolt for at least 6 years, right at the crux. Russ Walling
From www.FishProducts.com
Joined Oct 5, 2004
3,276 points
Nov 14, 2013
Jeff Scofield wrote:
and don't really like Murf


No one really likes Murf, I think that's something we can all agree on, even if we can't form consensus around this crux bolt.
caughtinside
From Oakland CA
Joined Nov 21, 2006
1,895 points
Nov 14, 2013
I don't think the bolt protects the crux , it just keeps you off the ground so you can get piece in. Just makes the climb easier and after you clip the bolt it helps mentally knowing your no longer going to hit the ground. This climb is classic example of makes sport climbing and bouldering so popular. Rule 1 for trad-climbers is "don't hit the ground." To do that a trad-climber put on his game face, uses skill and courage and climbs form the ground without pre-inspection using his honed skills to climb. Sport climbers when in doubt put in a bolt, boulders use crash pads. Anyways the bolt got to go its a "trad climb." Tradman
From Lake Forest
Joined May 7, 2012
3 points
Nov 14, 2013
Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W.
Chiming in late here.

This is not a question of ethics at all. Old crusty tradies vs modern climbers (whatever the fack that is). This is really a cultural issue. You can add all the safeties of a modern car ( air bags, anti lock brakes, caution signs, ad infinitum). This still does little to prevent people from using bad judgement and getting killed. In fact, all the safeties may even lend to a false sense of security and even poorer judgement.

The best protection a climber can have is good judgement. Don't go further off the ground than you are willing to fall. Don't go further above gear than you are willing to whip. Of course many other factors play a role such as the difficulty of the climb, the quality of gear and the consequences of the fall. This is all part of good judgement that comes from experience and time.

To erode a time tested "moderate test piece" if you will would be to rob the new generation of climbers of a true landmark in the climbing community and continue to dissolve the idea that climbing is dangerous (which it is) and requires your utmost focus and attention at any grade.
Greg D
From Here
Joined Apr 5, 2006
961 points
Nov 14, 2013
Climbing in Smuggler's Notch
caughtinside wrote:
No one really likes Murf, I think that's something we can all agree on, even if we can't form consensus around this crux bolt.


Kinda sad. Usually just stands around while other folks discuss important issues of the day.

Murf...no friends...lonely...
Murf...no friends...lonely...


Poor guy. Sometimes I feel sorry for him.
Brian in SLC
Joined Oct 6, 2003
11,031 points
Nov 14, 2013
Dow Williams, 2011
Exactly my thoughts on Doublecross although was going to be too lazy to put them to writing. Since Greg took the time: You can dumb it down all you want, but that often creates more hazard, not less, regarding most subjects. You just won't be able to measure it. Continue bolting the oblivion of the 5.7's to 5.9's and by the time a kid gets on a 5.10 run out where his chances of falling are far greater anyway due to the force of gravity alone, he/she will panic because they have never had that feeling before. Panic=problems. I always used Doublecross as a free and clean teaching ground for crack climbing. Considered it quite safe for that purpose.

Greg D wrote:
Chiming in late here. This is not a question of ethics at all. Old crusty tradies vs modern climbers (whatever the fack that is). This is really a cultural issue. You can ad all the safeties of a modern car ( air bags, anti lock brackets, caution signs ad infinitum). This still does little to prevent people from using bad judgement and getting killed. In fact, all the safeties may even lend to a false sense of security and even poorer judgement. The best protection a climber can have is good judgement. Don't go further off the ground than you are willing to fall. Don't go further above gear than you are willing to whip. Of course many other factors play a role such as the difficulty of the climb, the quality of gear and the consequences of the fall. This is all part of good judgement that comes from experience and time. To erode a time tested "moderate test piece" if you will would be to rob the new generation of climbers of a true landmark in the climbing community and continue to dissolve the idea that climbing is dangerous and requires your utmost focus and attention at any grade.
Dow Williams
From St. George, Utah; Canmore, AB
Joined Mar 13, 2006
186 points
Oct 9, 2014
Got out there early this season. Some Jack Ass put the in a new bolt! WHAT the F**K!!! I won't be back out till Nov who's going to pull it? Plus I have never pulled a bolt and the rangers don't like bolting or removing bolts. I don't want to make a big deal about it. I know its dangerous climb without the bolt but its a trad climb and bolt came years after the first accent. Who locally can pull it? Thanks Tradman
From Lake Forest
Joined May 7, 2012
3 points
Oct 9, 2014
Look.  Imma git them coconut chips.  Trust.
LOL! Adam Burch
Joined Jan 9, 2012
904 points
Oct 9, 2014
Okay, I climbed DC for the first time about a month and half ago. After reading about how classic it was and about how heinous the run out was, I made it a point to stop off and climb it on my way to the coast.

It is not run out. It is easy to protect, whether you start direct or off to the right. This thread confuses me to the point I had to double check that we had done the right route.

Just my two cents, but I really can't see what all the hype is about. It was an outstanding route though. Super fun jams all the way up, felt so good.
DesertRat
Joined Jul 26, 2010
177 points
Oct 9, 2014
Birds and Beards
DesertRat wrote:
Okay, I climbed DC for the first time about a month and half ago. After reading about how classic it was and about how heinous the run out was, I made it a point to stop off and climb it on my way to the coast. It is not run out. It is easy to protect, whether you start direct or off to the right. This thread confuses me to the point I had to double check that we had done the right route. Just my two cents, but I really can't see what all the hype is about. It was an outstanding route though. Super fun jams all the way up, felt so good.


Best way to understand this thread is to look up "running joke"
kevin deweese
From Oakland, Ca
Joined Jan 14, 2007
264 points
Oct 9, 2014
Putting bolts on a Trad-route in JT is not to be taken lightly! Tradman
From Lake Forest
Joined May 7, 2012
3 points
Oct 9, 2014
would somebody chop that bolt already so I can have a turn putting one in. Grover
Joined Jul 12, 2010
326 points
Oct 9, 2014
Climbing at the Gallery in Red Rocks
Grover wrote:
would somebody chop that bolt already so I can have a turn putting one in.


Seriously, and I call dibs for putting in the next one after yours gets chopped.
kennoyce
From Layton, UT
Joined Aug 12, 2010
1,504 points
Oct 9, 2014
WOW 21pages,if the FA party wants to ad a bolt let them.For the 20 years I've been climbing,that's always been the rule.It should'nt be chopped.If I remember DC was a bit sporty,in my opinion it does'nt need it.But then again I did not do the FA and if one appeared and I ever got the chance to do it again I'd clip it.And if it's safe climbing you want,buy one of those 30ft stick clips and go to Smith. m.gannon
Joined Feb 1, 2014
1 points
Oct 10, 2014
...
For the record I re-bolted Double Cross two days back so it's SAFE again.

Have fun!
Locker
From Yucca Valley, CA
Joined Oct 13, 2002
2,394 points
Oct 10, 2014
Aiding. Photo by Locker.
We were gonna do it as an aid ladder, right Locker? Did you get the bolts ready for that? I don't want them farther apart than 3'! teece303
From Highlands Ranch, CO
Joined Dec 16, 2012
636 points
Oct 10, 2014
...
"Did you get the bolts ready for that?"


I only added two bolts this time. One at the start, and one in the middle so someone doesn't accidentally slot something where that great hold is.
Locker
From Yucca Valley, CA
Joined Oct 13, 2002
2,394 points
Oct 10, 2014
Last year nobody die that I know of... I think the bolt down low was only up for a few days. I thought we settle this back in the 1980's. Didn't Bachar kick the shit out of Kauk for putting the first bolt up on DC? Tradman
From Lake Forest
Joined May 7, 2012
3 points
Oct 10, 2014
The Donger
Bachar didn't, but I did. Had to slap the fool in front of his woman and everything. Long Duk Dong
From The Far East
Joined Jul 11, 2008
15 points
Oct 10, 2014
But seriously, what the F**K with new BOLTS!! I guess not everybody was born before the 80's. The new generation just doesn't respect the "old masters" of the craft. Just because its a little tricky to place on 5.7+ with ground fall potential doesn't give you the right to place a bolt. With a bolt anybody can climb it. Its only a America Classic WITHOUT the bolt. Bolts ruin route for future climbers! Just my "2 cents." Tradman
From Lake Forest
Joined May 7, 2012
3 points


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