Login with Facebook
 ADVANCED
Double Cross Discussion
View Latest Posts in This Forum or All Forums
   Page 21 of 21.  <<First   <Prev   19  20  21
Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
 
 
By caughtinside
From Oakland CA
Nov 13, 2013
Dann R wrote:
Just emailed Murf. I don't know why anyone would waste their time chopping a bolt on a 5.7 or 5.8....let the lower level climbers have at it. Researching Mtn Project has led me to believe a vast majority of routes are 5.10 and above. ??? Am I wrong? If so, then punters and newbies should be allowed the safety of lower level routes (5.9 and lower) being bolted and the ominous reality of 5.10 routes presenting a new and daunting challenge.... Just my 2 cents. It boils down to the fact that bad ass 5.11, 12, 13, 14 climbers are really wasting their time making lower graded routes more dangerous for new climbers by chopping bolts. Who does that?


Post Murf's response here! I want to see his elitist argument crushed by the compelling logic posted above!

FLAG
By Tradman
From Lake Forest
Nov 13, 2013
Murf's is old news he hasn't chopped anything in years. He is like "Dread Pirate Roberts" it will be interesting to see who takes his place. The old JT Rock Police all got skin cancer or worst and they don't get out much anymore. There is a New Sheriff in town!

FLAG
By Russ Walling
From www.FishProducts.com
Nov 13, 2013
Russ
I was just painting up a batch of convenience anchors, ready to be deployed.... and then Murf just happened to come over... that was awkward.

FLAG
By Locker
From Yucca Valley, CA
Nov 13, 2013
...
"Murf's is old news he hasn't chopped anything in years".



The good old days. I miss them. I feel bad for Murf. Dude lost his chopping MoJo.

FLAG
By Max Supertramp
Nov 14, 2013
can't wait to go back and fist it.

FLAG
By Jeff Scofield
From Yorba Linda, CA
Nov 14, 2013
Spaghetti and Chili on the lieback!
I'm usually against removing of bolts and don't really like Murf but this one needs to be removed the new generation of gym climbers who don't own a rack or who don't want to learn trad properly will get lazy next thing you know sail away, white lightning and all the beginning classics will have a line of bolts up the route....

FLAG
By Russ Walling
From www.FishProducts.com
Nov 14, 2013
Russ
White Lightning has had a bolt for at least 6 years, right at the crux.

FLAG
By caughtinside
From Oakland CA
Nov 14, 2013
Jeff Scofield wrote:
and don't really like Murf


No one really likes Murf, I think that's something we can all agree on, even if we can't form consensus around this crux bolt.

FLAG
 
By Tradman
From Lake Forest
Nov 14, 2013
I don't think the bolt protects the crux , it just keeps you off the ground so you can get piece in. Just makes the climb easier and after you clip the bolt it helps mentally knowing your no longer going to hit the ground. This climb is classic example of makes sport climbing and bouldering so popular. Rule 1 for trad-climbers is "don't hit the ground." To do that a trad-climber put on his game face, uses skill and courage and climbs form the ground without pre-inspection using his honed skills to climb. Sport climbers when in doubt put in a bolt, boulders use crash pads. Anyways the bolt got to go its a "trad climb."

FLAG
By Greg D
From Here
Nov 14, 2013
Out of the blue.  Photo by Mike W. <br />
Chiming in late here.

This is not a question of ethics at all. Old crusty tradies vs modern climbers (whatever the fack that is). This is really a cultural issue. You can add all the safeties of a modern car ( air bags, anti lock brakes, caution signs, ad infinitum). This still does little to prevent people from using bad judgement and getting killed. In fact, all the safeties may even lend to a false sense of security and even poorer judgement.

The best protection a climber can have is good judgement. Don't go further off the ground than you are willing to fall. Don't go further above gear than you are willing to whip. Of course many other factors play a role such as the difficulty of the climb, the quality of gear and the consequences of the fall. This is all part of good judgement that comes from experience and time.

To erode a time tested "moderate test piece" if you will would be to rob the new generation of climbers of a true landmark in the climbing community and continue to dissolve the idea that climbing is dangerous (which it is) and requires your utmost focus and attention at any grade.

FLAG
By Brian in SLC
Nov 14, 2013
Climbing in Smuggler's Notch
caughtinside wrote:
No one really likes Murf, I think that's something we can all agree on, even if we can't form consensus around this crux bolt.


Kinda sad. Usually just stands around while other folks discuss important issues of the day.

Murf...no friends...lonely...
Murf...no friends...lonely...


Poor guy. Sometimes I feel sorry for him.

FLAG
By Dow Williams
From Saint George, UT
Nov 14, 2013
Dow Williams, 2011
Exactly my thoughts on Doublecross although was going to be too lazy to put them to writing. Since Greg took the time: You can dumb it down all you want, but that often creates more hazard, not less, regarding most subjects. You just won't be able to measure it. Continue bolting the oblivion of the 5.7's to 5.9's and by the time a kid gets on a 5.10 run out where his chances of falling are far greater anyway due to the force of gravity alone, he/she will panic because they have never had that feeling before. Panic=problems. I always used Doublecross as a free and clean teaching ground for crack climbing. Considered it quite safe for that purpose.

Greg D wrote:
Chiming in late here. This is not a question of ethics at all. Old crusty tradies vs modern climbers (whatever the fack that is). This is really a cultural issue. You can ad all the safeties of a modern car ( air bags, anti lock brackets, caution signs ad infinitum). This still does little to prevent people from using bad judgement and getting killed. In fact, all the safeties may even lend to a false sense of security and even poorer judgement. The best protection a climber can have is good judgement. Don't go further off the ground than you are willing to fall. Don't go further above gear than you are willing to whip. Of course many other factors play a role such as the difficulty of the climb, the quality of gear and the consequences of the fall. This is all part of good judgement that comes from experience and time. To erode a time tested "moderate test piece" if you will would be to rob the new generation of climbers of a true landmark in the climbing community and continue to dissolve the idea that climbing is dangerous and requires your utmost focus and attention at any grade.

FLAG


Follow replies to this topic? Notify me at the top of web site.
1

Email me.
Page 21 of 21.  <<First   <Prev   19  20  21