3" bong? Sounds pretty weak! What about a three foot bong??

How about a rock pipe up at the top????

I feel honored to be a part of historic page twenty. At the risk of getting back on topic, i would just like to get some confirmation on what appears to be established by now over the course of this thread regarding this route:

1. bolts haven't / won't eliminate all accidents on this route (because of the high volume of entry level trad climbers that manage either to miss bolt clips down low -see recent comment about aussie guy- or rip gear up higher on the route.)

2.The park service policy is clear that the bolts should not have been added originally , not to mention the chopped bolts getting replaced since.

Regarding #1 above: Mr. Peterson recently posted a list of names who have had accidents

By John Peterson 1 day ago

"Everyone should be aware of the tremendous toll the Double Cross has taken over the years. Those who have succumbed to Double Cross include many well know climbers, among them:

Amanda Tarr
Nathanial Beckwith
Inez Drixelius
Steven Cherry
Clint Cummins
Karl Baba
Stuart W. Marlatt
Ben Craft
Eugene Miya
Rex Pieper
Hal Murray
Greg Opland
Mad Dog
George Bell
Lord Slime
Tim Schneider
Tony Bubb

Question for you Mr. Peterson: are any of these people to your knowledge "experienced" climbers that made a "resonable" error low down on the route where the bolts in question might have prevented the accident? What i'm driving at is that it seems like there is allways going to be a good amount of inexperienced carnage on this route, bolts or not. But if "experienced" people are occasionally having accidents that the bolts in question could have prevented (due to "mistakes" that even experienced people occasionally make, foot-slippage and the like) , then perhaps this is an indication that the bolts should stay as they will undoubtedly prevent the occasional injury of both the experienced and inexperienced alike. What i'm kinda sorta advocating here is a more pragmatic approach to at least this particular route. First ascentionist ethics, strict trad ethics, (etc. etc.) are all well and good, but we are talking about a 5.7 here, so perhaps we can make an exception to all of those high and mighty principles that in most cases serve us so well, if for no other reason than to save the Yucca valley or 29 palms emergency rooms from having to pick up the tabs from these semi-frequent and perhaps often $$$expensive$$$$ accidents. The line seperating timeless classic and public nuisance is perhaps a fine one seen from the non-climbing taxpayers perspective.
Regarding #2: It seems that this thread is on the verge of becoming (in)famous, and is perhaps there already. Is there perhaps the risk of iritating the Jtree park service should they see that their official bolting policy (as unsophisticated as it is) is pretty much the last thing that gets mentioned in the discussion here.? I mean, it would be pretty bad if we (the climbing communitee at large)somehow shot ourselves in the foot on this one...stranger things have happened i guess.

Lastly, there have been quite a few "unsavories" that have weighed in on this one over the years, so i had better mention that i've done the route and lived to tell the tale...ya'll seem to prerequisite having a worthwhile comment on this for some reason.
Lastly, lastly, what happened to Murf in all this? I miss his shenanigans!

Its like a snowball effect that keeps on going, except its more akin to a pile of shit that keeps on stinking and growing.

Yeah this thread, its like a shitball effect. That's it.

and we've all stepped in it.

To be honest, you don't even need gear on DC, solves the problem of gear popping. Wear a squirrel suit and glide down when you fall. ;)

ya dont even need bolts if you tape up like this. Big line on it today. I should open up a tape and koolaid stand at the base. Oh, and a first aid station.

If you read my post, I never said that these people were involved in an accident. I was posting a list of prominent rec.climbers who became embroiled in an ancient and equally pointless discussion back in the golden days of rec.climbing when this same topic often reared its head.

To "succumb" to Double Cross is to take time which could much better be used for climbing and instead contribute to a meaningless flame war on the Internet.

That is all.

The last time I did DC was last Winter with Jim Donnini. He had never been on it and asked if he mind he lead it. Jim geared up and began to climb, the ONLY piece he placed was in the horizontal crack at the bottom protecting the move into the crack. After that he walked the rest without placing a single piece. The guy know a thing or two about crack climbing. We then went over and he lead/soloed the Damper 5.9, the guy just cannot fall out of cracks, impressive.

As far as DC goes. It's fine the way it is. No more dangerous than any other climb of it's grade.

Yeah, sorry Tradman. I pulled one of the bolts from Sexy Grandma (on lead) and rapped into DC. It was getting dark so I couldn't really tell if I got the bolt all the way in (oops!) it should make it through the season as long as too many Gumbies don't fall on it.

It's protecting the crux (the bulge) cause that's the hardest part and probably where most people fall. So anyway, it's done and we can move on.

That Bill Donini is a crack machine!

Justin;...you messin' wid my climb sexy grandma?......I'm gonna get Bob Donini and Rick Walling after you;.....they are both old;...but they are scrappy;...like a pair of badgers;......they are coming after you....unless you put that bolt back on Sexy Grandma (feel free to take those lame-ass pins out too, and replace them with big ol' juicy 1/2" bolts w/shiny Petzel hangers winkin' at ya from the ground). Thanks in advance.....(I know you will do the right thing......or else;..you know;.....Jerry Donini and Rob Walling;...you don't want that.....)....

Sorry,...Todd, was it? I heard that Royal Robbins and Evon Chinard (the first accentionists of The Nose on El Capitan in Yosemite) put up that Sexy Grandma with Evon's original pins that he made in his garage!

Anyway, Whoever these Russ Donini and Bill Walling guys are I'm pretty sure they haven't done as much for the Climbing Community as I have by protecting the "crux" of Double Cross, and they have no right to "come after me." With that being said, I'd love to meet them and we could settle this with good old fashioned diplomacy (i.e., beer).

Climb on guys! (and girls!)

And so the circle of jerking continues....

I'll BE BACK!