IMO DC definitely warrants an "R" rating unless you stick clip the second bolt. Unfortunately a lot of sport climbers show up and don't realize that just because it's bolted, that doesn't mean it's a sport climb!

I think it should either have more bolts added to make it safe, or they should all be chopped to return the climb back to its original state (5.8+ R/X) and it will sink back into obscurity where it won't claim any more victims.

Has a local Trad climber I have never put a bolt in in thirty years of climbing. I think a bolt down low on this runout America Classic is a good idea. This route was the first 5.7 put up anywhere. Open Book has a fixed pin just before first crux lieback and its consider an American Classic being the first 5.9 in the world. So why not protect the masses on this American Classic just like we do on Open Book. If we do hopefully I will still be able to climb it for the next thirty years with a bolt down low.

Bolts have been around a lot longer than Cams and most of the classic cracks were climbed with out cams. So your saying No Cams either? Come On Nobody want to see people get hurt and is very popular route. I just saying Add a Bolt but do in Trad style making it save and we all win.

Everyone should be aware of the tremendous toll the Double Cross has taken over the years. Those who have succumbed to Double Cross include many well know climbers, among them:

Amanda Tarr
Nathanial Beckwith
Inez Drixelius
Steven Cherry
Clint Cummins
Karl Baba
Stuart W. Marlatt
Ben Craft
Eugene Miya
Rex Pieper
Hal Murray
Greg Opland
Mad Dog
George Bell
Lord Slime
Tim Schneider
Tony Bubb

Please just stay away from Double Cross!

I'd recommend the Headstone instead, but that fell down in the 1992 earthquake.

Is that just injured people, surely not deaths! In a sick way that list of people gotten injured by this climb make me want to climb it even more!

Thanks Eric for the Kudos. To be clear, never climbed this route or even been to Joshua Tree, but I've always wanted to visit and I'd like it to be as pristine as possible for me and our future generations to enjoy! Who knows, maybe as standards rise, our grandchildren will look at that climb and not be able to believe we even roped up to climb it.

The Murder of the Impossible message extends to smaller and more subtle areas of life and climbing...style is important! More important than style is good judgment, which would have kept all those people from getting hurt.

"More important than style is good judgment, which would have kept all those people from getting hurt."

Thats what I am saying. Joshua Tree is a Trad area maybe the last TRAD Stronghold in the country. So style is important and good judgment by the community. So putting a bolt in down low while on lead keeping with the Trad style and doing it in the name of good judgement. With so many visitors from out of town like yourself (Ben) thinking its 5.7 and easy. It is 5.7 but it not easy. Us locals know how to climb at Josh and 5.7 at JT is not easy.
Its like a handrail overlooking the Grand Canyon most of us know better than to get to close. Some have to get a closer look so you have to put up a handrail to protect the masses.

Why interfere with Darwinism? Fuck the masses! Both places I have climbed at the most in the East, the Adirondacks and the Gunks have fairly strict traditional ethics and people generally exercise good judgment. Very few injuries on a lot of climbs, and the few with "reputations," such as Boston at the Gunks, a 5.5 offwidth which has reportedly claimed some lives, remain bolt-free.

I have the private owners to thank for keeping that route and the cliff in general free from eyesores, but WE are all the protectors of public land like Joshua Tree and all national parks. I think the decrease in popularity on a climb like the one in question is not necessarily a bad thing, in fact I think it's a GREAT thing because I hate seeing people while climbing.

Being a Trad climber is like being a Republican today. We hold true to American Traditional Values and we lost the last election badly. We have to change or least say we are going change to include more people or we risk becoming irrelevant. My point is that us Trad climbers need to yield a little or become irrelevant. Sport climbers and out of town climbers now out-number us locals. If we make one route a little safer for the masses and yet do it in Trad style we all win and Trad climber can stay relevant.

I'm so glad this thread is back, and that we're still talking about a classic 5.7 with a small run-out off the ground. Seriously, many boulder problems are taller than that run-out. Why not restore the climb to its original state, add an 'R' or PG-13 to the guidebook rating and be done with it?

On second thought, let's excavate a big-ass hole at the base and make it into a foam pit. The climb stays 'pure' and blowing the slab moves becomes super fun!

A foam pit and an on call therapist to help all those manly gym/sport climbers who get spanked by a 5.7.

Stick clip the second bolt on DC... wow. Have not been there in the last 10 years probably but on my first visit there I was super sketched because of the rep, but dont really remember it being anything bad at all. Why there are bolts on this I dont know. Primarily trad climb now but have done a far share of sport routes and even put some up but for me it was just a matter of climbing at Jtree a couple weeks and then doing that climb when I felt good. You accept risk every time you tie in and putting in bolts to protect a little run out seems like a dumb idea... but oh well. Really dont care as someone can just not clip them too.

Joshua Tree birthed rap-bolted sport climbing as we know it. Ya'll probably think it was Smith Rocks or something. Papa Woolsey, rap bolted in 1972.

Old trad dudes didn't bolt cracks? Of course not. Bolts took too long, they fixed pins in them instead. WTF is the difference? (aside from a bolt and hanger costing $3, and a LA costing $15).

Was Excalibur on El Cap put up as a trad route? Because looky here, a bolt 6" from the crack:

What is more trad than a piton? I think you could probably whang in a good 3/4" angle at that first placement. BTW, that placement used to take a yellow alien, now you need a grey alien. Rock erosion, people. Human impact.

A good piton out right about 15 feet up will save the rock, reduce the need for the second bolt (maybe it can be removed!!) and be low enough to for a standard stick clip made from a six foot painter's pole. I mean a pole made for painters, not a 72" guy who paints.

Maybe the best of both worlds.... a drilled hole with a piton in it?

"This thread just gets better and better. Can we make it to 20 pages? It shouldn't be too hard to come up with 3 more pages of nonsense regarding a route that most of us have no interest in ever climbing."

Ryan ... what the heck is wrong with you??????

I think that you can not call yourself a ROCK CLIMBER unless you have done a redpoint on Doubble Cross.

So you are saying - no admitting - that you are not a ROCK CLIMBER- !!!!!!!!?????????!!!!!!!?????????

And to Ben, from NY... if DOUBLE CROSS was in the GUNKS it would be rated 5.10D for sure.

Colonel..... That must be a Nevada thing? Right.

In JT the grannys need a hit o crystal in between rounds.