Wow, Ken, I leave my 5x5 cubicle long enough to go do a few new routes (2 of over 150 in the last year alone. Not an easy task when I spend all my time in my cubicle "trolling") and I come back to read your vehement diatribe.

I guess I really hit nerve. Though it's a very common response for one who knows he's in the wrong to lash out at his accusers.

The full name, by the way, Ken, is Jim Scott. Though how using ones real name on a website increases ones "manhood" I don't quite understand. However, if you actually had "any balls" you could have emailed me directly from this web site, as many people have done looking for local climbing beta.


By the way, Narcissism: excessive interest in ones own; appearance, comfort, importance, abilities etc.

I've just re-read all your posts about this issue, and I think that describes you quite accurately.

Let me, again, reiterate my point, I have no problem with people climbing next to me. (I do new routes all year long just so we, the climbing community at large, can have fun new climbs to throw ourselves at. I don't do new routes so I can hoard them for my own private climbing area, Ken.) I do have a problem with people who obviously are so self absorbed that it doesn't even enter their mind that they could, just maybe, out of common courtesy, amble along and do one of the other multitude of different climbs close by. Then come back when the climb isn't so crowded. It's not antisocial to expect this modicum of courtesy from others, but the fact that you can't seem to grasp this concept is at best narcissistic and at worst sociopathic.

From reading the other posts, it also appears, I am not alone in my observations or conclusions about your personality traits.

Ken, if you ever come to Tucson and we run into each other at a crowded crag, just ask if it's OK to do the climb right next to me, that's all, just ask, and I'll gladly stack your rope for you, and cheer you on as you climb. It's really that simple.

Jimbo,
Since you are from Tucson, do you know a short, muscular, funny, old(mature), guy named Joe (Chiefman?). If so, say "Hi" to him from Greg Hand & Dave Mungo.

Ken,

What are you editing? Whats up with the film?

Ken,

A: I rest my case

B: I give up

Wow. You guys are too much. I go on a road trip for a week and come back to a gong-show. I'm going to resurrect this nonetheless though. IMO, the bottom line is this:

No one knows the exact circumstances you encountered on that fateful day at Shelf Road (although everyone appears to have a good idea). If you feel that you were wronged (this is directed at the OP, WETF it was) then be assertive. Tell the party climbing next you how you felt, then and there.

If you had told them, they might have said something like:

"We're sorry to crowd you, but this is a big project of mine; I'm not local and I don't know when I'll be able to get back to it." Or maybe they would have said, "Fuck you, I don't give a shit about your personal space." Unless you said something to them, you'll never know.

Don't come on MP.com and bitch about it. No one is going to change their cragging behavior because of some anonymous, bitchy post.

Some people drive slow in the left hand lane and no number of middle-fingers and dirty looks are going to change that. Suck it up; that's life.

--Marc

word up marc

Marc Horan wrote, "Some people drive slow in the left hand lane and no number of middle-fingers and dirty looks are going to change that. Suck it up; that's life."

However, people shouldn't drive slow in the left lane. If this were a driving forum, I may have started a discussion about whether driving slow in the left lane is rude. (I feel that it is.) Members of that driving forum, who didn't know driving slow in the left hand lane annoyed others, might change their ways. This is a climbing forum...
My OP was not intended to be a "middle-finger" or "dirty look" to those who climb next to me. Just a heads up that in certain situations it might annoy some other climbers.

For the worst thread ever, it has gotten a lot of
attention. And may result in fisticuffs between some of
the members...The fighting part was not my intention. I AM NOT A
TROLL. I am a fellow climber who had a thought to share. Is this a
crime? Did it relegate me to endure this harsh reaction? At what point was I bitching? I attempted to share a thought with what I perceived as a "community". Is this how fellow climbers get treated on MP.com?

I have tried repeatedly to get my point across. That I don't feel as
though I own the crag, that I understand people will climb next to
others at times, that this is not a huge issue. But, obviously it is a gray area. There are climbers on both sides. This issue has been raised before, and I'm sure it will appear again. As the climbing community grows it will become more important to have "rules of conduct". (i.e. no chipping, don't top rope through fixed gear, no throwing pumpkins from the top of the cliff...). MP.com seems like a good place to start these discussions and hopefully receive thoughtful responses. Internet bullies suck! Thanks to those who have risen up.

little did Big Time know that his post which seemed so innocent and heartfelt at the time would end up leaving 30 people who have never met in real life wanting to kill each other in slow painful ways.

You guys make the special ed kids look normal...

(No offense to the mentally handicap, just to retards fighting on the net)

Big Time: I feel your pain. I took your post seriously. In fact, I don't even know what a troll really is (although is sounds like an argument ad hominem). Anyway, the idea (mentioned by someone earlier) that people who think like we do should tell those that climb too close that they are being rude is just stupid. Of course it will piss them off, as they would never consider their actions to be inconsiderate. Consequently, I would never tell a rude party that they are being rude, because they just wouldn't get it. I would just pack my shit and go somehwere else. Whatever. The point is, some of us do consider the behavior of 1) climbing right next to a party without asking when 2) there is plenty of room to not crowd others, simply rude or at least socially retarded. However, as made evident by some of the other people in this forum, not all of us feel this way.

So here is a perfectly reasonable solution. If a party chooses to climb (or wants to climb) right next to another party when there is plenty of room elswhere, the new party should just ask if it is cool. I would imagine that this would placate everybody involved. And if the new party includes a guy named Ken, the original party can just leave (running and screaming) because Ken Cangi sucks.

Bogardus, hopefully Bigtime and all the other sprayers and sick hardboys working their routes and frowning down on everybody will follow your lead and move the fuck out of Colorado. Then maybe it can resemble the paradise it once was before you tourists decided to stay and call it home.

Bigtime, you want me and SAL to floss with your ass hair? and you get offended when Girls want to climb next to you? Sounds like you would be better off finding your type at some special bars in Denver.

That would make it the Olympics.

Trolympics. Yet another useful term generated here.

Someday we will all be able to tell our grandchildren that we were there, at the beginning, when the thread that annihilated civilization was born.

Pretty good zing with the video. I wonder if they'll come back with anything better than "Oh yeah, well F-you!"