Do you stick clip?

Are climbing routes that require or suggest the use of a stick designed to be that way? Does it make an easy climb fit the grade, where as it might be given a higher grade with out it? I understand it is often used where there is a risky start and potential for danger. In my opinion, I don't want to have to drag a stick around with me. I have a feeling that the person that bolted the route wasn't doing it with the intention of others having to clip. With that said, if it's too hard or dangerous to climb with out a stick clip, then one that thinks of it that way isn't ready for that route. I have climbed a route that suggest using one and did it without using it. This particular route had a risky fall, however, it was easily protected with a nut in a low crack and it had a difficult bouldery start. But climbing it without the clip, to me, kept it more pure and natural. (As natural as a sport route can be). Opinions?

Cheap insurance for avoiding a broken ankle. I don't know where you climb but rarely is the ground a nice flat surface to land on should who you fall before you clip the first bolt. Tree roots, loose rock, etc... You're free to climb however you want. I'll take the cheap insurance. Seems all the high level sport climbers feel the same as I rarely see them not stick clipping the first bolt on hard climbs.

If you're clipping bolts at all it's not "pure and natural". So you might as well stick clip. I stick clip once in a while. If I want to climb pure and natural I trad climb.

This thread is going to get heated fast. Start the popcorn!

I'm excited to see Joe Healy's take on this......................

Yes, there are routes designed for the use of a stick clip. The use of a stick does not affect the difficulty of the climb, only the relative safety while low on the route. For most, the entire point of sport climbing is to climb as hard as you can while minimizing the risk. A stick clip is a tool toward this goal. If I want to embrace and manage more risk in my climbing, I go climb on gear. If I'm clipping bolts, I'm already minimizing the risk and trying to up my difficulty and, to me, there is no point increasing my risk and I will happily use a stick.

JoeGaribay wrote: I have a feeling that the person that bolted the route wasn't doing it with the intention of others having to clip.

I don't know what route you are specifically talking about, but as someone who has bolted plenty of routes I can tell you that I and many other developers do bolt routes with the intention of others having to stick clip the first bolt.

Good info. I certainly wouldn't want to take a fall in a dangerous situation. I guess I'm more interested in how the route setter intended it to be. I'm sure many routes have been set with the intention of the use of the stick. The route I'm basing my questions on is one that has been argued over for some time. It's a bolt war. An often placed bolt is continuously chopped because the initial run out 1st bolt is over a ledge. But it can be protected with a nut. Therefore not needing the stick. So then is it a sport route? Is it ok for sport climbers to be upset about having to use a piece of gear? Why wouldn't a sport climber want to expand their knowledge and practice using trad gear and mixing it up. I love mixed routes. They're perfect stepping stones for me to expand my climbing and grow.

you also have to take into account that the first bolt has to be high enough that you won't hit the ground if you blow the clip of the second bolt and fall.

JoeGaribay wrote: Is it ok for sport climbers to be upset about having to use a piece of gear? Why wouldn't a sport climber want to expand their knowledge and practice using trad gear and mixing it up.

It has nothing to do with expanding their knowledge and practicing using trad gear and mixing it up, it has to do with the fact that if I'm going sport climbing I don't want to have to bring a rack with me for that one placement on that one route that I might do. If it's a sport area with predominantly sport routes, then the routes should be completely bolted even if there is one spot where you could place gear (obviously full crack routes are an exception).

Well said csproul. That helps me appreciate things more. I can now view the stick as more of a necessary piece of sport equipment, rather than a luxury. I'm sure as I climb more and encounter stick clip necessary routes, I'll realize the benifits.

Thank you everybody for reassuring me that there are other sane people out there. It's totally non-epic to fall before or at the first clip, break your ankle on the rock garden under the start and then puncture your lung when you fell onto the spear-like root. And special thanks to your belayer who wasn't spotting you because that looks lame at a sport crag.

OP, I appreciate wanting to know what the bolter's intentions were, but in the end, safety is your responsibility/choice, so it doesn't matter.

What if it was put up on lead??? Not so many sport routes, but tons slabby bolted lines, and mixed trad lines have first bolts that are pretty high. Those routes have history that we shouldn't negate by just stick-clipping, show the FA some respect and make an attempt to do it good style, or choose a less serious route..... If it's a rap-bolted sport route, then sure do whatever you need to make it feel safe for you.

Somewhat different topic:
I intend on sharing the specific route, which I enjoy climbing without a clip, though with my background in surfing, I'm reluctant to share the location. It's a sin to share surf spots with the outside world. I feel climbing isn't so tight. If you look at my file and are familiar with the area, I'm sure you'll figure out what route I'm speaking of.

If you stick clip below 5.12 I don't think you are really climbing the route correctly.

Rusty Finkelstein wrote:What if it was put up on lead??? Not so many sport routes, but tons slabby bolted lines, and mixed trad lines have first bolts that are pretty high.

This discussion isn't about those routes.

Russ Keane wrote:If you stick clip below 5.12 I don't think you are really climbing the route correctly.

This is pretty stupid.

There are a few routes at a crag I go to with routes around the 5.10 range where if you fell before the first bolt you would go tumbling down a hill over ledges and dropoffs. Perfectly good reason to stick clip.

Russ Keane wrote:If you stick clip below 5.12 I don't think you are really climbing the route correctly.

yeah, who cares if those lowly less than 5.12 climbers break their ankles, they probably deserve to anyway for being so lame.

Russ Keane wrote:If you stick clip below 5.12 I don't think you are really climbing the route correctly.

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/flying-hawaiian/105910536
there's a bunch of others at rumney below 5.12 that benefit from a stick clip

Fair enough, I guess I felt it needed to be considered though. Only skimmed through the thread above and didn't see it mentioned....

- In my opinion the question is pretty simple though, unless the route was meant to be stick-clipped for whatever reason, then you're not really leading it if you stick-clip..... you're TRing some of it. What about the rodeo-clip???

Russ Keane wrote:If you stick clip below 5.12 I don't think you are really climbing the route correctly.

Seems incoherent to me, either its bad form or its not. I don't see how the difficulty of the route changes that.

^^
most instantaneous success in a troll post ever?

Rusty Finkelstein wrote:What if it was put up on lead??? Not so many sport routes, but tons slabby bolted lines, and mixed trad lines have first bolts that are pretty high.

This discussion isn't about those routes.